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W.D. Pender - trousers

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  • W.D. Pender - trousers

    IS THERE SOMEONE OUT THERE???

    Well as we all knew, the pair of trousers Gen. Pender wore on this fatal day at Gettysburg are imported british EM pants.

    Beside the one pic in EoG-Confederate and the info in the MoC-Catalogue. Does someone has more Information and of course more pics of this Trousers?

    Any help/info/pic would be really appreciated.

    Thanks in advance

    Ingo Rolletter
    5th Va vol Inf Rgt (GER)

  • #2
    Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

    It's interesting when one considers the time frame of the battle...it would seem that English-made uniforms were coming thru the blockade much earlier than late 1863-early 1864...Pender had to have acquired his EM trowsers at least by May '63, perhaps even earlier...
    Tom "Mingo" Machingo
    Independent Rifles, Weevil's Mess

    Vixi Et Didici

    "I think and highly hope that this war will end this year, and Oh then what a happy time we will have. No need of writing then but we can talk and talk again, and my boy can talk to me and I will never tire of listening to him and he will want to go with me everywhere I go, and I will be certain to let him go if there is any possible chance."
    Marion Hill Fitzpatrick
    Company K, 45th Georgia Infantry
    KIA Petersburg, Virginia

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

      Tom,

      You are correct. By February 1863, 8,250 pairs of trousers had been sent in from England, with another 13,750 waiting to be shipped. (Gorgas, Feb 3rd 1863)

      Ingo, the trousers themselves have a label marked "Campbell & Co" and were supplied by S. Isaac Campbell & Co of Jermyn St London, almost certainly ordered by Caleb Huse the main CS purchasing agent at the time.
      They are made from royal blue kersey wool, with pockets and inner facings of light brown cotton drill with black japanned tin buttons.
      They do not have any "WD" markings, meaning they were made for the Confederate market, and enlisted men in particular.

      As you say, Pender was wearing them at Gettysburg in July 1863, when he was mortally wounded. They could have been one of the 8,250 pairs that had been imported by Feb 1863.
      I hope this helps.

      Dave Burt
      David Burt, Co Author "Suppliers to the Confederacy: British Imported Arms and Accoutrements" "Suppliers to the Confederacy II: S. Isaac Campbell & Co, London - Peter Tait & Co, Limerick, Out Now

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

        Thanks Dave! Would this apply to jackets also?
        Tom "Mingo" Machingo
        Independent Rifles, Weevil's Mess

        Vixi Et Didici

        "I think and highly hope that this war will end this year, and Oh then what a happy time we will have. No need of writing then but we can talk and talk again, and my boy can talk to me and I will never tire of listening to him and he will want to go with me everywhere I go, and I will be certain to let him go if there is any possible chance."
        Marion Hill Fitzpatrick
        Company K, 45th Georgia Infantry
        KIA Petersburg, Virginia

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

          Tom, I have never seen an invioce for any jackets from S. Isaac Campbell & Co, only greatcoats and lots of cloth. Peter Tait & Co was the firm who provided the uniforms.

          Dave Burt
          David Burt, Co Author "Suppliers to the Confederacy: British Imported Arms and Accoutrements" "Suppliers to the Confederacy II: S. Isaac Campbell & Co, London - Peter Tait & Co, Limerick, Out Now

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

            Thanks Dave! You are a fountain of knowledge on this. Best regards.
            Tom "Mingo" Machingo
            Independent Rifles, Weevil's Mess

            Vixi Et Didici

            "I think and highly hope that this war will end this year, and Oh then what a happy time we will have. No need of writing then but we can talk and talk again, and my boy can talk to me and I will never tire of listening to him and he will want to go with me everywhere I go, and I will be certain to let him go if there is any possible chance."
            Marion Hill Fitzpatrick
            Company K, 45th Georgia Infantry
            KIA Petersburg, Virginia

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

              Definately would love a pattern for these (Pender) trousers. I heard that Kochen maybe doing a run of this color blue wool in the future as well.
              Respectfully,
              Jon Bocek

              ~ The Dandy Man Mess / WA / VLH / LR ~

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                As requested here is a pic of the pants as displayed by the MOC. Wish it were more.
                Click image for larger version

Name:	2008 Aug MOC 033.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	1.18 MB
ID:	222974
                [FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=DarkSlateGray][SIZE=3]Michael Phillips, GGG Grandson of
                Pvt Edmond Phillips, 44th NCT, Co E, "The Turtle Paws"[/SIZE]
                [SIZE=2]Mustered in March 1862
                Paroled at Appomattox C.H. Virginia, April 15, 1865[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

                [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy][B]"Good, now we'll have news from Hell before breakfast."[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
                Was Gen Sherman's response upon hearing the capture and execution of 3 reporters who had followed from Atlanta, by the rebels.
                The execution part turned out to be false.[COLOR=DarkRed] [B]Dagg Nabbit![/B][/COLOR][/FONT]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                  "Definately would love a pattern for these (Pender) trousers. I heard that Kochen maybe doing a run of this color blue wool in the future as well.
                  V/r
                  Jon Bocek"
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Hi Jon, I believe that County Cloth's #K2CS ("Royal blue") cloth is good for these trousers:- http://www.crchilds.com/Fabrics%20C.S.2011.html

                  Also, it's my understanding that this cloth was made up by the Richmond Depot in their pattern too - as an alternative idea? Making Pender's trousers might be quite a challenge as the hardware (buttons etc) might be hard to aquire for the 'perfect' copy?

                  Also, there is a good thread here ("Blue Confederate trousers") you might find of interest if you haven't already read it:-



                  Regards
                  Paul Jonsson (England, UK)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                    Paul,
                    Thanks for the info. Unfortunately Charlie is sold out of the #K2CS. He has said there is a possibility of getting another run done, but wouldn't be for awhile. The thread on the "Blue Confederate trousers" and the research that has come out on English imports is what has fueled my desire to get a pair like these for the upcoming late '63 and later events.
                    Respectfully,
                    Jon Bocek

                    ~ The Dandy Man Mess / WA / VLH / LR ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                      Here is a link to an article of mine which appeared in the now defunct Civil War Historian Magazine on blue trousers.



                      Dave Burt
                      David Burt, Co Author "Suppliers to the Confederacy: British Imported Arms and Accoutrements" "Suppliers to the Confederacy II: S. Isaac Campbell & Co, London - Peter Tait & Co, Limerick, Out Now

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                        Luckily it is possible to reproduce the Pender pants, but it is a bit of a challenge. While #K2CS is a perfect match to the cloth and the typical blackened tin buttons are easy to find as both original and reproduction, the pants have all sorts or lining materials including black and white silesias, plain woven linens in a couple colors and weights, scraps of blue grey kersey (pretty cool, huh?), etc. Add to that the "S. Campbell and Co." label, paper size label, funky pattern details, tons of reenforcements, and some bizarre construction techniques, and you've got quite the project for what ends up looking like typical Richmond pants from the outside. It was fun for a couple pairs but I'm not anxious to make more, and guys didn't seem too willing to pay what it takes to make them right anyway.

                        -Craig Schneider
                        Last edited by CSchneider; 05-03-2012, 01:24 PM.
                        Craig Schneider

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                          Craig,
                          One thing I never managed to get a picture of when I saw the trousers (because they were on display) was the "Campbell & Co" label. Do you or anyone else have a picture they may be willing to share of that label, or an accurate description?

                          Dave Burt
                          David Burt, Co Author "Suppliers to the Confederacy: British Imported Arms and Accoutrements" "Suppliers to the Confederacy II: S. Isaac Campbell & Co, London - Peter Tait & Co, Limerick, Out Now

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                            Thanks Craig-
                            you received a PM.
                            Regards
                            Ingo Rolleter

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: W.D. Pender - trousers

                              WEll,

                              Thanks to all of you for your input.
                              If anybody has worksheet or more pics/details a PM would be really appreciated.

                              Kind regards
                              Ingo Rolleter

                              Comment

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