Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Gents-

I should have attached this on my last email but check out this Ohio Civil War flag that was restored. It was almost lost to the ravages of time but this community saved their history. The flag was battle damaged and souvenired but it looks awesome!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dailystandard.com/picts/2009/09/19/2009-09-19_3_full.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailystandard.com/archive/story_single.php%3Frec_id%3D9842&usg=__q-tY_gUOnXIrGNUtLwThj1lgvGk=&h=302&w=400&sz=31&hl=en&start=9&zoom=1&tbnid=aCoapn-6v1izbM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=124&ei=ZFsuUJOyPKaYygHPvIDwCw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsouvenired%2Bcivil%2Bwar%2Bflag%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Let's not lose sight of the fact that this is not only a historical relic, but it still is Federal colors that deserve the same respect as any US flag does today as the symbol of our country. I wonder if that did that not cross the minds of Upper Deck management.

Perhaps it could have been traced upon further scientific examination to a particular region/regiment/time of make? Now we will never know for sure sadly.

Disgraceful. Sad.

[tsgalloway]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Looks like supportive comments are the only ones that made it through...they are completely censoring any negativity towards their relic-destroying plans...

[garyjd]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

If it's been done, the trinket vendors in Goofysburg thought of it on or about July 5, 1863.

Comparing something done during the war (soldiers did it too) to someone destroying a relic to do it 150 years after the fact = Apples and Oranges

[garyjd]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Looks like supportive comments are the only ones that made it through...they are completely censoring any negativity towards their relic-destroying plans...

I posted one late last night. My guess is they may have gotten bombarded with a lot of negative comments.

[hiplainsyank]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Someone should send a link to this to several national syndicated columnists. Maybe one of them would bite and shame Upper Deck where they can't sensor...

[ibliftin1]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

It definitely makes me sick to my stomach to hear that this is happening. There really isn't any justification for this. I will never buy anything from UD. I wonder if an online petition would help?

James Teeple
24th MO

[One is the Left!]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

This is why we can't have nice things.

[BobRoeder]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

FWIW I'm rather glad to see the responses of the members here regarding the destruction of artifacts for fun and profit.

Many moons ago I posted a rather negative view (probably lost in one of the crashes) of reenactors using original artifacts - some altered for various reasons for e.g. grinding an original bayonet so it fits the bizarre shaping of a repop rifle muzzle. If I remember correctly the majority of the responses were in the line of, "I paid for it so I could do whatever I want with it". Not that I support what these people are doing to cash in on the legacy of the Civil War but right or wrong these people are pretty much following the above premise.

Lastly, I did not post this to start a flame war, or provoke another slew of justifications for using original artifacts in our impressions.; just making an observation.

Cheers,

[Spinster]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

Bob,

It often depends on whose ox is being gored.

I note that men who would recoil in horror at the thought of taking an original uniform, putting it on and wearing it over and over again to a reenactment, or who will carefully handle an original shirt with interest and care, learning from its every detail and duplicating those shirts just so, ---these men justifiably take great pride in their scholarship.

Some of those same fellers will also take an original coverlet or carpet of the same vintage, twist and tie it over their shoulders, waller in the mud, sleep under it, allow the rain to fall on it, drag it from one place to the next, and further damage a surviving textile for their own pleasure, because, after all, they did pay for it.

[4vaadjutant]

Re: Union Battle Flag and Other Relics cut up and put in...trading cards?

As the former chairman of the Indiana Civil War Battleflags Commission, I was appalled at the insensitive disrespect shown for a priceless relic by the Upper Deck. If there was enough material surviving to tear into small souvenir pieces, there was enough to preserve for future generations to appreciate. It brought to mind a wonderful experience I had years ago with the preservation of Indiana’s Battleflags, some of which were merely small portions of their original size.

In the early 1990s some college students who were members of the Indianapolis Civil War Round Table began questioning where the flags carried by Indiana soldiers could be seen. Up to the mid-1980s a large number of the original banners could be seen on display at the Indiana Soldiers and Sailors Museum located on Monument Circle in the center of downtown Indianapolis. Another large collection was on display on the 4th floor of the Indiana Statehouse. When the Statehouse was renovated for its centennial celebration in the late 1980s, the flags were removed. At about the same time the memorial on Monument Circle was shut down for a period of time to repair leaks from the monument’s fountains as well as other upgrades to the Circle City landmark, which required the removal of the flags from there.

After a search by the students, the flags were found to have been moved to a basement storeroom at the Indiana World War Memorial Building, which is located on the south end of the American Legion Mall where the national headquarters of the American Legion is located. With great excitement I made an appointment to see the collection. I was accompanied by a senator from the Indiana General Assembly who served with the 101st Airborne and was a veteran of the fighting in the Au Shau Valley during the Tet Offensive in the Vietnam War. What we found brought both of us to tears – literally! The dank, dusty, poorly lit storeroom had a huge collection of military ordnance and other relics that dated from the pioneer days of Indiana to the Vietnam War. The flags were there, too – some of them literally draped over sawhorses! Others were folded and placed on wooden shelves in small stacks. Some of the national colors were neatly folded into triangles while others were – just sort of folded. The banners that had been displayed at the Statehouse and at the Monument Circle Museum were still in their bronze cases, most of which appeared to be in decent condition. Talk about disheartening! My friend, a battle-hardened veteran who wrote a book about his Vietnam experience said to me, in a commanding voice, “Tom, we have to do something about this!” My response was a resolute “Yes, Sir!”

In 1866, General Lew Wallace (who later wrote the novel “Ben Hur”), on behalf of Indiana’s veterans, turned over to Governor Oliver P. Morton, who represented the citizens of Indiana, which included its veterans now discharged, over 400 flags carried by Indiana units on behalf of the Union. At that public ceremony the Governor pledged that the State would forever take care of those flags in honor of the Hoosiers who fought under them. That pledge was obviously not being kept as of 1992.

I was a lobbyist for Indiana’s commercial banking industry at the time, so the state senator and I devised a strategy to get money for the proper care and preservation of the approximately 320 flags that remained in the collection at the Indiana War Memorial. We knew that our task would be difficult because the state budget was looking at a projected deficit of perhaps $80 million and the state constitution prohibited the state from going into debt. While the senator worked behind the doors of the caucus rooms I worked in my normal bailiwick in the hallways outside the House and Senate Chambers of the Statehouse. The senator recruited a key member of the Senate Budget Committee as an ally and I got help from a couple lobbyists who represented automobile dealers and labor unions. Now, that was an unusual coalition: auto dealers, union members and commercial bankers all working together on the same issue! The representative of labor was a friend of mine from the Indianapolis Civil War Round Table named Jim Trulock, who with his wife authored a book about Joshua Chamberlain, titled “In the Hands of Providence.”

We found a lot of support for our efforts to raise money from the Indiana General Assembly to save the flags. In spite of the budgetary challenges, more than one legislator asked if we were requesting enough funding to meet our need. We consulted curators to arrive at cost estimates and felt our request was reasonable. Something we did to control costs was to use as a guiding principle that we were about preservation of the flags, not restoring them.

By the end of the legislative session we succeeded in achieving our goal – we got enough money budgeted to complete the first phase of the project. In doing so we also enlightened legislators, other public officials and the public about the importance of preserving worthy historical relics for future generations. I was honored to be named chairman of the newly created Indiana Civil War Battleflags Commission by Governor Evan Bayh. Even though I usually wear the gray as a reenactor, my ancestors were officers and enlisted men in both armies and I accepted the chairmanship with honor.

Something I found interesting was that after the attention our efforts at the legislature received in the news media, unknown flags began to show up from private collections and other places. One great example is the flag of the 19th Indiana Infantry Regiment (Iron Brigade) that was carried on McPhersons’s Ridge at Gettysburg. After several members of the color guard went down in that action, the last one to carry the flag was a boy from Richmond, Indiana. It is reported that he was rallying his regiment when he was mortally wounded. As he went down the flag became draped around his body. His flag-draped body was placed on a passing artillery limber and carried to Cemetery Hill where the boy died. When his body was shipped home the regimental flag was placed in the coffin. For generations it remained in a trunk in the attic of his family’s Richmond home. The descendents felt that the new storage facilities were a more fitting place for the flag, so they presented it to us. It is a national flag that has 52 bullet holes and blood stains visible on it.

Today the 320 or so flags in the collection are located in two basement storage rooms of the Indiana War Memorial in downtown Indianapolis. The rooms have been completely retrofitted and sealed to maintain temperature, light and humidity controls. The flags are stored in huge 8’x8’ map-like cabinets that are also environmentally controlled for light, temperature and humidity. It is amazing to see how banners that were once wrinkled are now lying flat because of the impact of gravity over the years. During the process of putting the flags into the most favorable condition for preservation, high quality digital photographs of each were made so that people who want to see what a particular flag looked like can request a copy of its photo. One time when I was serving as the adjutant for Medich’s Battalion, I arranged for the battalion to hold its annual officers’ call at the Indiana War Memorial. After the meeting I took everyone down to one of the flag rooms and opened the cases so the officers could see up close some of the banners. I was amused when I noticed the members of the color guard made a bee line for a corner of the room where several original flag poles were leaning against the wall. Those poles received very close scrutiny!

I would like to conclude by stating it is indeed comforting to know the State of Indiana is once again living up to its promise to the veterans that their sacred banners are being preserved for future generations.

Tom Williams
4th Virginia Infantry
Indianapolis