Conical vs Round Bullet

[Cumpston1862]

Gents-

A short while back I asked the advice of this forum on what to do with an old Civil War era target rifle I had in my possesion. The rifle was in really rough shape and falling apart and I was really concerned about its condition leaving it "as is" for another 20 years. I decided to have it restored by the way.

During the discussion I was contacted by Mark Latham and he has graciously offered to do the work for me. It is my intention to do some before and after pics here once the old girl is home.

Now for my question. When I got the gun years ago I also got the original bullet mould for it. I thought it lost forever until an old high school buddy returned it to me just a week ago. Anyway it is a brass double cavity mould capable of making both conical and round bullets. I guess my question is WHY? Why make both or have a choice?

I realize this rifle was intended for the civilian market but still why the choice? Does one function differently then the other in the regard of the type of game being hunted? Which bullet type would be more effective against a human target?


I tried the search function and didn't find a conclusive answer in past threads.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Hallo!

One can never know for sure, but...

IMHO, most likely it is a mold "associated" with the rifle at some point in its life time, and not necessarily the mold that the original rifle had. It may have been the only near calibre sized mold at the general or hardware store at the time the rifle was purchsed.

A little history.. in brief and to over generalize.... because of the handmade nature of rifle making in the 18th century, rifles did not have an exact standardized calibre and the maker would supply a mold that was for the calibre of that gun. With the rise of the Industrial Revolution, the "lock, stock, and barrel" hand-made aspect of gun building shifted over to commercially available parts and many gunmakers turned into gunstockers assembling guns rather htan making all parts by hand.
With few rare exceptions, suviving rifles almost never are found with the tools that were used to shoot and maintain them. Yes, we have artifacts, but they tend to be loose, random, and isolated specimens.

My suspicion is that at some point in time, in your rifle's lifetime, that mold was the one that came to be used with it because it may have been the only one available and it worked. I am remind of a 1790's rifle attributed to Daniel Boone owned by Marshal Hooker. Its true mold long gone, he used a .36 revolver mold in its .45 bore because that was all he could find (he patched the ball heavily...).

Typically, such molds are for C & B revolvers (typically cased sets), giving the shooter the option of a round ball and a conical for "rolling their own" ammunition and not going with factory-made conical ball cartridges.

Curt

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Curt-

Good points.

The target rifle itself is believed to be from the gunmaker Henry Brunker living in Ottawa, Illinois before the Civil War started. I have seen several of his rifles on-line and he seems to have been a rather prolific artisan. Many of the target rifles he made were fairly elaborate with the brass and engravings on them. Some of those rifles looked to be the type that would have been presentation type or boxed rifles with all the goodies included.

My rifle is the plainest of any I have seen from Brunker. I suppose Brunker tailored his rifles for all types of buyers; from high end to low end. That being the case the mold could have come from Brunker or been one that as you suggested was picked up along the way. We may never know.

As an aside; I measured the bullets to be about 10.5mm which according to different sources I checked would make it about .40 caliber. Or if I am wrong please correct me. Either way thanks for the information!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Hallo!

Did you cast and measure the conical as well?

It may be a pricket rifle ball configuration, and a target shooter's option or choice versus a .36 revolver mold. That the round ball and the possible pricket ball are in .40/.41 would eliminate them as revolver balls and add weight to the rifle story.

Curt

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Curt-

Interestingly enough I did cast some round and conical bullets yesterday. But I did not measure the balls themselves only the mold. A friend of mine stopped in and thought the same thing that the mold was probably for a .36 caliber revolver.

I am at home now and don't have the mold and bullets with me. Maybe I can swing by work and get them this weekend to measure them again.

I can say from experience that when I first got the rifle and mold I cast some bullets and dropped one down the barrel by accident. The bullet fit pretty snug and it took some effort to get it out.

If I do end up getting the stuff this weekend I will try and take some pictures of the bullets against a scale.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Curt-

The attached picture shows one of the conical bullets I cast with the mold just the other day. Metric and I do not get along but it looks to me that the bullet is just over 10 possibly 10.5 mm. What do you think?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Hallo!

Aha! That makes things easier!!!!

Yes, it is a pricket bullet- the distinctive cone shape givse it away.

Oh, 10.5mm, off the top of my head, is .40-.41ish. depending on the "math."

Curt

[David Fox]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

In addition, Ned Roberts classic "Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle" throws a deal of light on different picket bullets, "sugarloaf" bullets, round balls, etc. One suspects this rifle was intended for hunting various game animals, casual target shooting, and more formal competition. Some matches were round ball only, for instance, while picket-style bullets, patched in paper or specially cut cloth patches, could deliver long range accuracy and more punch down range. If the rifle's (slow) rate of twist could well stablize round balls, likely only short bullets with a narrow bearing surface would be satisfactory. 150 years ago this was common knowledge. in fact, the last fifty years of the 19th Century saw, concurrently, the apex of American muzzleloader development and its rapid decline as a segment of the firearms industry. During this time the celebrated makers were no longer the isolated men in sheds with crude equipment who turned-out gems of graceful wood and metal firearms. Now the noted, named makers, using the finest machinery and accruing scientific principles, manufactured shooting machines with fast lock times on the closest tolerances with moulds (and often swages) mated to the weapon.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Curt-

Do you think it possible sinse the mold seems to be .40 caliber that it is original to the gun?

David-

Thanks for the information! That makes a lot of sense.

[David Fox]

Re: Conical vs Round Bullet

Mostly rifles came out of the shop with iron moulds.