Vincennes Rifle

[orngblsm]

Gentlemen,

The original 124th New York carried a vincennes rifle for three months of their enlistment. I was wondering if anyone could give me information as to what this rifle looked like or even better if anyone has a picture of one. I know that the original vincennes weighed 16 pounds and fixed a sword bayonet.


Respectfully,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

Hallo Kamerad!

Sorry, I do not have the PC skills to share pictures...
But may be my framing this answer will give yousome ideas to look for some pictures elsewhere.

Oui, Monsieur- the French and the US and CS ordnance folks are often "period lax" when it comes to this...

Meaning, "Vincennes" (short for the more formal "Carabine de Chasseurs de Vincennes ) seems to have been a common way to refer to every FRench rifle... ;-)

To make along discussion short, I have a mental image of the French Model 1853 Rifle (commonly referred to as a "Carabine a tige" due to the preMinie "Thouvenin System" of a metal column (the tige) being in the bore on which the bullet sat and was expanded inot the rifling by "pounding it with the ramrod).
In 1857 the Minie was adopted, the new Model 1859 Rifle for it came out, and a number of the older "a tige" M1853 and M1846 rifles modified by removing the tige.)

The Model 1859 Rifle or Carbine was called "Carabine de Vincennes." (and variant CW names and spellings such as "Chasseur de Vine" rifles

It was widely copied by Liege, Belgium with variations.

In brief, it is two banded "rifle" with a back action lock, "funky" French hammer, and some variation of a a folding leaf long range rear sight.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[RyanBWeddle]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

[QUOTE=orngblsm]The original 124th New York carried a vincennes rifle for three months of their enlistment. I was wondering if anyone could give me information as to what this rifle looked like or even better if anyone has a picture of one. I know that the original vincennes weighed 16 pounds and fixed a sword bayonet.[QUOTE]

"The actual uniforms of the 124th were standard issue. The State of New York provided 993 infantry frock coats, 21 infantry musicians' coats, and one Ordnance coat (for the reimental hospital steward) along with 1,015 blouses and 1,215 forage caps. It went off to looking like any other infantry regiment except for the initial issuance of "Vincennes Rifles" with sword bayonets. These imported weapons were soon replace with Enfield and later Springfield rifle muskets."

from
'The Orange Blossoms'
by Michael H. McAfee
Military Images Vol. XXV, No. 5
p.36

From what I can remember off the top of my head they are a heavy, high calibre import similar to a Belgian/French. Used by some New England regiments, and Rebels. Universal dislike of them seems common...

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

Hi Ryan,
Googlefu led me here. When was the 124th NY issued the M1859s? Are there any known images of the 124th NY carrying them in a studio?

[jtrotta]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

Mark,

According to the History of the 124th New York Volunteers written by Colonel Charles H. Weygant, the 124th were transported by rail to New York City where on September 7, 1862 they received "Austrian rifles with sword bayonets" (page 33).

They carried these rifles until January 10, 1863. Weygant states in his book "January 10. From my diary. Our new rifles are here. Farewell, old Belgians, welcome Enfields, say all. I never saw the regiment in such high glee. All are rejoicing, from Colonel Ellis down to the contrabands. Evening - the men have been busy all day cleaning their guns, and when they assembled for dress parade there was presented as happy and proud a line of faces as one could wish to see. We have always been ashamed of our homely, heavy weapons, and the only remarks I have heard to-day, approaching regret that the exchange has been made, came from our little round-shouldered Dutchman, Billy Saunders. As Billy dropped his piece on a pile of others which had been deposited at regimental head-quarters, he made an awkward lunge with the huge sword-bayonet, saying as he did so, 'Boys, you don't know how much you owe to these old blunderbusses. It is my opinion that if it hadn't been for them you would have been tarnal high all killed at Fredericksburg. What general would be such a fool as to lead, in a charge, men armed with such toad-stickers?'" (page 79-80)

There is a studio image of Corporal Francis Benedict (who was killed at Chancellorsville) armed with an "Austrian rifle with sword bayonet" as described above. However, I do not have a copy of the image to post. The image can be found in Charles LaRocca's book The 124th New York State Volunteers in the Civil War, A History and Roster on page 57. Further information regarding how the regiment was armed can be found in Mr. LaRocca's book as well. Particularly on pages 13, 21, 27, and 57.

Best,

John Trotta
Washingtonville, NY (home of Co. G, 124th NYSV)

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

Thank you for the info John. I just bought an image with this described musket, and because so few were brought in, wondered if it was the 124th. Do you recall if there was a painted scene on the photographer's background screen?

[jtrotta]

Re: Vincennes Rifle

Mark,

No painted scene is visible.

There is an article written by Michael McAfee for the Hudson River Valley Institute that includes the image (the image is part of Mr. McAfee's collection). The article can be found using the search function (try "McAfee") on this website: http://www.hudsonrivervalley.org/. The image is on page 6. I'd post the article directly, but don't want to upset anyone.