Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

[JulianNew]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

I just made a shelter half, it was very simple. In the directions to mine the guy who wrote the article made it sound like everything but the button holes, grommet holes, and corner reinforcements were machine sewn. He did say however, that very few originals were entirely hand sewn. Here is the link for the directions. http://44tennessee.tripod.com/articl...elter_II-a.pdf

[rmilstead]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Julian,
Mr. Cox's article is one of many "rip offs" of Fred's original landmark work. These are great for those who wish to make a shelter half (incorrectly in this case) or don't have the historical interest or patience to get and read the original. At the time Fred wrote this book he surveyed EVERY known example. While I believe several newly uncovered pieces have surfaced since, the conclusions of his work document what was known about the Federal Shelter Half. Brian's comments do shed some interesting details and potential clarification on one unique example but except as noted above, Mr Cox is simply incorrect in the detail you describe, period.
Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Alabama Battery
Baltimore Light Artillery
The Company of Military Historians

[JulianNew]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Not trying to start an argument but several other comments on here say that there were machine sewn shelter halves. But I do agree with you there were also hand sewn shelter halves too.

[rmilstead]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

As I said above, I guess I am beating a very dead horse here!!!

Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Alabama Battery
Baltimore Light Artillery
The Company of Military Historians

[Scott Sheets]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Hi Dick, I don't think your beating a dead-horse. I just disagree that ALL known Type II halves have hand sewn hems based on my reasons above. As I mentioned before I have nothing but respect for Mr. Gaede's work, and I'd love to see the halves in the database listed with seam/hem construction. More information never hurts.

On the other part of the topic, prior to learning of Mr. Gaede's book I found the article by Mr. Cox and made a pair of halves based on it. It was from that article that I learned of Mr. Gaede's work, and bough a copy of his book. Mr. Cox doesn't hide the fact that his directions are based on the book. He is just trying to layout a step by step guide to making a half with credit for the nomenclature, features, etc. given to Fred.

[Button Baron]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

John Z says that ever since working for working for his Grandfather's tailoring and dry cleaners (circa 1960's), he has known that blue line canvas/drill was, and is still not being made in the right width for shelter tents. The blue line canvas/drill that is sold by Needle and Thread in Gettysburg is the same as his grandfather used for pockets and linings. Years ago John made an attempt to go directly to the mill in Georgia that produced the fabric and the mill was willing to run the correct width, but the order quantity required was a size that would fill a railroad flat car. That particular mill is long since out of business and moved overseas. Anything is possible in this business if you have the money to invest in quantities that manufacturers require these days.

The labor involved in hand-sewing shelter halves, hand sewing buttonholes and hand reinforcing the grommet rings would be ineffective cost wise. The market simply would not bear the cost of the labor. Remember, during the Civil War, they had child and female labor working in the factories producing these goods. This makes it almost a requirement, if you want an authentic tent, to sew your own by hand...or have a really good friend willing to do it!

Cheers!

Janet Smith for John Zaharias, Sutler

[Button Baron]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Checking at Needle & Thread today, the only blue line fabric that is available there is: 32 inch wide 100% cotton duct. The blue line is woven into the fabric, it is not printed on, and it is on both selvages. It takes a wider variety of this to make a perfectly authentic shelter half. Unfortunately, this is all that is available and it is almost impossible to find this fabric anywhere else.

Regards,
John Zaharias, Sutler

[rmilstead]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Scott,
I believe that I acknowledged your (correct) assertion that the Type IIb example listed in Fred's Data Base as number 9 is shown with machine sewn hems and that my initial contention that ALL type II's had rolled and hand sewn hems at the ends where the material was cut was not correct. My last post was not directed at your posts which were thoughtful nor at Brian White's which provided some very interesting and, obviously, well grounded observations relating to that specific example which he had the opportunity to inspect. I was reacting to another poster's apparent assertion that the "how to" article which was derrived from Fred's work was somehow historically correct in the construction directions about this specific detail, which it was not.

The point here is that I was discussing type IIa shelter halves, specifically, which what this thread started off to discuss. I generalized (perhaps incorrectly) to type IIb examples. Even in my original post I stated that all long seams on later (i.e. type III) shelter halves were often (usually?) entirely machine sewn based upon Fred's description. Also most type II (a or b) had the long seams where the material used for the IIa and IIb shelter halves was pieced had machine sewn seams. I never said that they were always entirely hand sewn which some other posters seem to believe I said. In Fred's data base only 1 type IIa and two of the type IIb examples were completely hand sewn, that is 3 out of 13 shelter halves in the type II classification.

With respect to the post by Janet Smith for John Z, nowhere did I say doing the construction in an Authentic manner wouldn't involve more labor or that if a vendor put in the effort that they shouldn't be compensated for it. The construction detail I was indicating that should (on type IIa shelter halves!) be rolled and hand sewn were the long hems at the top and bottom of the half tent only. This doesn't mean that I was saying the entire tent needed to be hand sewn. Today many vendors who make military clothing offer completely hand sewn construction at a premimum cost for those who request it. Why not offer hand sewing for this detail or even entirely hand sewn tents at extra cost for those who want it! Likewise some members of the Living History hobby expect such hand sewn details and are willing to pay for to insure authinticity in of their kit. I assume these individuals would be willing to pay the additional cost to have the shelter halves they carry done correctly. Certainly having them stamped properly with one of the two known vendor marks when most known examples are unmarked seems to be an important detail to them. Actually, in the construction of my own type IIa shelter halves (and no I don't make them for sale to others) the added time to properly roll and hand sew the specific hems that I am referring to probably added about an hour to the overall construction time given that I machine sewed the long seams where the panels were joined as was typical so this really didn't seem to be a big deal to me.Obviously totally hand sewing a shelter half would be a much bigger deal but based upon Fred's work those were relatively rare anyway.

Just my $0.02. I believe that I have ranted enough on the subject.

Dick Milstead
Hardaway's Alabama Battery
Baltimore Light Artillery
The Company of Military Historians

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

To add to the subject of how Type IIa tent halves were constructed, on page 95 of Gaede's book is Figure 121 showing part of a captured Type IIa shelter tent half that was made into the ANV Provost Marshall headquarters flag. Although the photo is relatively small it is clear enough to see that both the lower hem and corner reinforcement were originally machine sewn, as is the visible long seam.

The circa 1864 photo titled "Belle Plain Landing, Virginia. Distance view of Belle Plain Landing on the James River," LC-DIG-cwpb-01782, shows a man standing next to what is most probably a Joseph Lee contract Type IIa shelter half. If you look at the detail from that photo posted below you will see a stamp on the lower center panel of the tent; the Lee stamp of the same configuration can be seen on pg. 79, Fig. 106 in Gaede's book. It's impossible to know for sure if the hem and corner reinforcements of this example are machine sewn, but I am confident that I do not see the usual widely-spaced puckering that would indicate hand sewing. If anyone has studied the LoC photographs in depth and seen high-resolution images of wedge tents then you will know what I mean.

Finally, the original Joseph Lee tent half that I directly base my reproduction on has machine-sewn vertical seams and hems with hand-sewn (overcast) corner reinforcements. The tent was machine hemmed before the corner reinforcements were sewn on, effectively pinning them into position, which I believe was done before the half was handed off to a hand finisher. The thread used in sewing the reinforcements match the thread used in the grommets, buttons, and buttonholes. I first studied this tent in the summer of 2000 when it was part of a great little collection out of Hamilton, OH, which has regrettably been broken up by the family after the owner passed away.

Is a reproduction Type IIa shelter tent inaccurate if it's entirely hand-sewn? No.

If there's a combination of machine and hand sewing? Certainly not.

Inaccurate if it's all machine sewn? Appears not.

What about contractor stamps? (As mentioned above by Mr. Milstead) My decision to provide them on three of the four styles of tent half I produce is based directly on the fact that the specific originals I studied all have stamps. The fourth example, which I believe was part of a contract order made for Cincinnati Depot, does not have a contractor/inspector stamp but I offer the choice of a Geo. Moulton/Cincinnati stamp if a customer wants it. They typically don't. I described war-time alterations/repairs to this same tent earlier in the thread.

[Scott Sheets]

Re: Type IIa (Early War) Shelter Half

Dick,
Sorry I didn't see your reply until today. I really appreciated the discussion we were able to have, it forced me to read more, and search for more information, which is always a good thing, especially when we can all learn something. I think there were so many tangents on this thread I got confused at times.

Brian, Thanks for your input, I appreciate the information. That LOC image is great. I see what you mean about the lack of puckering, gonna have to look at more that I have saved from the LOC now. Thanks again.