Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Gents-

My first musket was a Navy Arms Model 1863. I parted with it and regret it as well :(

I do not know this as fact but I would venture a guess that the model 1863 was widely re-produced years ago as there were more around and in better shape to copy from when it came time to study originals.

Being that an original was very close in price to a repro years ago many guys used originals at events for a long time. As prices have gone up considerably and most of us can only afford to have one gun; a model 1861 or something earlier makes more sense so we can adapt our impression from early war to late war with it.

Any which way about it though I miss my model 63!

[GenuineInformation]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

This research comes from the old Co. G, 10th Texas website. Scott McKay is probably who compiled it.

According to the Memphis Daily Appeal (June 7, 1864), regarding the engagement of Granbury's Brigade at Pickett's Mill, Georgia (May 27, 1864:

"Our loss in killed in the brigade is 41, wounded 117. The loss of the enemy in killed in front of the brigade 300, wounded 1200, prisoners taken 250, and about 1700 stands of small arms, most of which were new Springfield rifles."

By mid-1864, one might reasonably think that Confederates had seen enough Springfield rifles to be familiar with a "new" pattern. The quote is not conclusive, but I'd say it definitely points toward '63 Springfields being among those captured by Granbury's Texans at Pickett's Mill.

[Dbackfed]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, but the rifles could have been m1861s made in 1864. Good quote though.

This research comes from the old Co. G, 10th Texas website. Scott McKay is probably who compiled it.




By mid-1864, one might reasonably think that Confederates had seen enough Springfield rifles to be familiar with a "new" pattern. The quote is not conclusive, but I'd say it definitely points toward '63 Springfields being among those captured by Granbury's Texans at Pickett's Mill.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, but the rifles could have been m1861s made in 1864. Good quote though.

Good point. Does the phrase "new Springfield rifles" refer to new pattern or new condition? Some might argue that "Springfield" means they were stamped as being from that armory rather than contractor arms. Sometimes though, I get the feeling that "Springfield rifle" in period references refer to a .58 caliber weapon of the same pattern made at Springfield regardless of manufacture.

As an aside, in the post WW1 period the British referred to the American-made 1917 Enfields in .30 caliber as "Springfield rifles" to distinguish them from the .303 British variety.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Hallo!

I would comment but my PC is in the shop this week.

:( :(

Curt

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Hallo!

In Hobby History, the Navy Arms so-called "M1864" came out as the first "three bander" in 1974. It was basically a modern typology "M1863 with mostly M1864 features but a few M1863 parts. Problems with it saw a suspension, followed by its rereleased in 1975. I had two.

The M1863 was approved and adopted On February 9, 1863 following an inquiry for improvements to the M1861 in April of 1862 largely brought about by Colt's SM1861. It was made ONLY that year, as it was tweaked and then approved on December 17th of 1863 becoming the so-called M1864 (typology M1863 Type II).

To a limited extent the M1863 was made by a few contractors as well.

273,265 were made at Springfield.

The "change" or variation of the M1863 some call the M1864 saw 255,040 made at Springfield and none by contractors.

Side note. While this went on, the M1861 was still made under contracts into 1865.

Hobby-wise...

Until the Parker-Hale Parker Hale in the late mid 1970's, followed by the Italian Enfields early 1980's, the only "three bander" was the Navy Arms mixed model "M1864."
Later Mick Yeck would release his M1863, and the Italians after the their M1861 would do their own M1863 as would Miroku who did their own after Navy Arms quit their partnership.

IMHO, YES, definitely so, the M1863 and "M1864" are chronically underrepresented (as is the SM1861) in Reenacting and Living History when appropriate for late Spring early Summer of 1863 through War's end. Of course with the usual a caveat for unit, time, and place, researched and documented, as having had them impressions.

IMHO still...

They have largely been rejected by the Hobby because they are mid 1883 through end of War. Meaning, an M1861 can be used for mid 1861 through April of 1865, and we look the other way for Manasass and early 1861 events... And gave a nod to a blind man in using post summer of 1865 M1865 Spencer Carbines all the way back to 1861...)

Curt

[Plug Hat]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Sam,

I purchased a Navy Arms made M1863 Type II (blued lock plate stamped 1864/steel barrel)Springfield Musket for $180 new in 1978, I was a senior in High School and just getting into the hobby in Richmond, Va. I believe this was one of the first 3-band muskets made for reenactors; the Zouave muskets had been out for years--why I do not know? I still have the musket, spring is tight and it is well made. It is amazingly light compared to the M1861 repros that came out later (Dixie, Euro-Arms, Armi Sport). My son, now 22 and fairly new in the hobby is now carrying it until he can purchase a M1861. Cheers from Texas

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Gosh, I have an ArmiSport 61 that I have been working on for quite a while, to make it a more original looking firearm.
But, I have rarely used it for reenacting/LH, because it's finicky about firing blank loads. Live fire...it's dead on, (worked on THAT too) ram paper onto the powder charge, it goes off every time.

I actually WANT a nice 1863 replica, for no other reason I LIKE the 1863/64 models! The Texas Civil War Museum here in FT. Worth, TX. has an original that is so pristine, I was convinced it was a new replica.

Kevin Dally

[dclarry]

Re: Use of Model 1863 Springfield Rifles

Gosh, I have an ArmiSport 61 that I have been working on for quite a while, to make it a more original looking firearm.
But, I have rarely used it for reenacting/LH, because it's finicky about firing blank loads. Live fire...it's dead on, (worked on THAT too) ram paper onto the powder charge, it goes off every time.

I actually WANT a nice 1863 replica, for no other reason I LIKE the 1863/64 models! The Texas Civil War Museum here in FT. Worth, TX. has an original that is so pristine, I was convinced it was a new replica.

Kevin Dally

I have a Miroku 1863 that just hangs on my wall. It has been modified for live fire (not by me), with an extended front sight and some beading done on the stock. I have not really thought too much about selling it, but if someone really wants an 1863, I'd consider selling it.

-Lawrence