Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

[Nathan Dodds]

I'm always scared that the Richmonds for sale are either a 1855 with a richmond lock, or a doctored 1861. What do ya'll think of this one?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

Did not show the date.

There are some unique attributes of the Richmond that need to match up with the date on the lock. I had mine looked at by Paul Davies, author of the book on Richmonds. Everything was right to my relief. To my eye yours looks right from what I can see but there are things like sight mounting and stock cutout for the lock plate that I can't comment on. Perhaps one of the other more knowledgable people who occasionally post will elaborate. What is the history of the gun. Found on Round Top??

[Nighthawk]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

Jim,

On the top photo you can make out the 1862 date.
Regards,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

Hallo!

With the obvious caveat of having just those few pictures, not having the gun apart, and not having it in my hands and under my eyes....

In brief and to over generalize....

From the images, yes, it appears to be 'legit.'

Curt

[duke1861]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

I'm not a gun expert, but from the pictures it looks correct. The patina does not look fake and it also has the brass nose cap.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

Hallo!

IMHO...

His question was more along the lines of whether this is a Richmond Armory RM, and not a counterfeit M1855 RM or worse yet M1861 RM that has been altered.

For many years, there have been "alledged" Richmonds for sale, and sold, that were just original M1855's or M1861 where the counterfeiter has swapped out a few original Richmonds such as the locks (for example). Obvioulsy, a Richmond nets far more thousands and thousands of dollars than does a standard M1855 or particularly M1861.

One can also add a Richmond nose cap, or even a M1855 Type I nose cap to the forgery.

What it can come down do is the ability to take it apart and look for some of the minute Richmond details that would not be the same on a M1855 or M1861.
Oh, pick a few..
Such as Richmond eliminating unnecessary production steps such as the feed finger cut, primer magazine door latch spring cut, and the door latch screw cut being dropped from the lock mortising after 1862ish.
Or the way the lock internals were mortised into the stock.
Or, brass butt plates appearing after March of 1862 when Harpers Ferry iron ones ran out.
Or when the unfinished M1855 Type I brass nose caps ran out, as well as the Type II iron ones initially replaced with contractor made brass one riveted on up to January 1862 and then after February 1862 brass tips screed on with iron screws.
Or steady "pins" and barrel dovetail slot for them on the M1861 Richmond modified rear sight to prevent sight slippage.

Curt
Or when the lock and barrel date, and sight yard number stamps from HF wore out and were replaced with ones with slightly different fonts.

[Bill]

Re: Does this Richmond Rifle Look legit?

Hallo!

IMHO...

For many years, there have been "alledged" Richmonds for sale, and sold, that were just original M1855's or M1861 where the counterfeiter has swapped out a few original Richmonds such as the locks (for example). Obvioulsy, a Richmond nets far more thousands and thousands of dollars than does a standard M1855 or particularly M1861.

I'd love to find one of those M-1855's with an original Richmond lock. I can't afford a "real" Richmond Rifle-Musket in any sort of reasonable condition and the weapon is basically just a M-1855 with a different lock. (They were built using the tools and dies taken from the Harpers Ferry Arsenal)