Shipping antique firearms through USPS

[JED]

Dear AC members,
I need some help. I am trying to ship a couple original antique Civil muskets and 2 x reproduction ones from California to Rhode Island. My brother in law was holding onto them in CA while I was deployed overseas but now I am back CONUS and wanted him to ship my muskets to me as the owner. Again, these are my muskets - there is no seller transaction.

The post office told him "you cant do this and we could both be fined." I remember reading last year that antiques are exempt from the FFL to FFL shipping requirements but I cant seem to find the federal regulations on this. I am going to do some research today but in hope of saving me some time, I wanted to see if anyone had something archived that they could send me or point in right direction.

Or, would using FEDEX or UPS be easier?

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Please shoot me an email at joedupre2004@hotmail or leave a posting on the AC forum. Thanks!!!

Sincerely,
Joe Dupre

[JimKindred]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Antiques or replicas of the same are not classified as firearms under Federal or US Postal regulations. Your post office needs to read their own regulations. Approach them with the idea they have never read the regulations and you will probably come out ahead. If the clerk gives you any problems ask for the Post Master.

Be sure that RI is not one of the idiot states that classifies antiques as modern firearms. Only one or two states do this. You can look that up here - http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...ion/index.html

ATF definition of antique firearms -

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —
…
A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

USPS rules for shipping firearms can be found in handbook IS-135.

Unloaded Antique Firearm

Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are acceptable for mailing.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm#ep308518

If it were me I would ship them UPS or FedEx ground primarily because their insurance is much better. You may run into the same issue with UPS and FedEx about shipping them, if so have them refer to their own tariff under "Antiques", if they look under their firearms tariff it will not separate modern from antique firearms unless there has been a recent change.

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

I've never had any issue shipping antique weapons via the mail, it happens all the time. Your best bet though would be UPS. The first mistake was mentioning to them what you were shipping, typically the person at the desk, is just a person at the desk.

Just box them up, insure them, and ship em.

John Walsh

[JED]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Jim,
Awesome. Thanks a bunch! It almost seemed easier when I shipped the originals from England to US than from CA to RI...
This really helps and saves me a bunch of time.

Sincerely,
Joe Dupre

[JED]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Jim,
One more quick comment as I read through the documents and email. Since these weapon are definitely fall in the category as antique firearms, do they even need to be declared as John Walsh alludes to? Can they be insured and shipped without and additional paperwork or do I need to read some more :-)

Thanks again,
Joe Dupre

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

I have been shipping weapons, as has every other relic dealer I know of, and in the 10 years I've been doing it, I have never filled out any paper work outside of getting a shipping label. I just received 4 muskets from Heritage Auction and they came via UPS as if I was receiving a VCR.

The problem you run into is that the person at the desk see's that it has a barrel and a trigger and its a gun to them, they are not versed in the schematics. Get an 8x8x60 inch box, pack them well, weigh them, insure them, and ship them. If you want to put a description down, put antiques.

John Walsh

[Silas]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Joe, use the search function here and in Szabo's forum. Look for a post from me which describes how to ship weapons via UPS Ground. Last time I remember bumping it was earlier this year on Szabo's to give people options for getting their stuff to the Gettysburg reenactments.

[JimKindred]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

No additional paperwork is required.

As far as the ATF, UPS and FedEx is concerned it is nothing more than some wood and a pipe. Antique firearms do not fall under the requirements of the GCA of 1968 as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26,Chapter 53 of the United States Code.

Main rule here is - Don't make this any harder than it needs to be".

Jim,
One more quick comment as I read through the documents and email. Since these weapon are definitely fall in the category as antique firearms, do they even need to be declared as John Walsh alludes to? Can they be insured and shipped without and additional paperwork or do I need to read some more :-)

Thanks again,
Joe Dupre

[Cotton Trash]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Joe, I had a recent encounter with the "3" listed mailing services ups,usps and fedex back in july of this year. Ups has become so scared of the word "firearm" that when I attempted to explain I purchased an antique firearm an (Austrian Lorenz) at a local gunshow in Kansas City Mo. and wanted to ship it to my home address in Atlanta Geo,The lady looked at me as if i had a visual disease, took a deep breath, stepped back and stated "We can't and will not ship any type of GUNS !! So I left and made up my mind to NEVER use or recommend ups ever again to anyone. The usps stated they can't ship firearms but suggested I check with Fedex. I checked with Fedex and they said with a Big Smile We will and can ship anything anywhere in the world all you need to do is insure it, package it, label it and be here before 5 and we will get it out to you !! 3 days later I had my model 1854 Austrian Lorenze type II in my hands...Thanks Fedex you now have a life long customer. The key word to use when talking with your chosen mailing service is...Anitique-Non-firing-wall hanging Old Musket!! Good Luck.......

Chad Phillips

[JimKindred]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

The usps stated they can't ship firearms but suggested I check with Fedex.

The amount of stupidity you find behind the counter at many post offices is astounding. We legally ship handguns all the way up to belt feds using the USPS. :)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Hallo!

The central theme here, IMHO and experience with hundreds of such shipments over the years is that:

-there is Federal law, and there can be or are more restrictive state or local laws.
-there are carrier company policies
-there are people on both sides of the counter who know the laws
-there are people on both sides of the counter who know the carrier policies
-there are employees/supervisors who know their policies
-there are employees/supervisors who do not know their policies
-and there are workers and supervisors with their own ideas or anti gun agendae

and our personal experience(s) will vary depending upon which of the above we encounter at any given store facility or attempt to ship.

My last fight was over UPSing two repro M1841 barrels only at the local city UPS Store.

Sigh.

Curt

[JimKindred]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

To add to your list there are different policies regarding firearms shipment at the UPS Center and the UPS Store. UPS Stores are not allow to accept firearms shipments where the UPS centers are allowed to.

Shipping firearms is something we do on a weekly basis and it has taken a while but I have managed to "train" a few of the local counter clerks on what they can and cannot do when it comes to shipping firearms. The first step is to not accept no for an answer, make them show you in their regulations the specifics on shipping firearms, it will turn into a learning lesson for them especially if you end up getting the post master or their supervisor involved.

Hallo!

The central theme here, IMHO and experience with hundreds of such shipments over the years is that:

-there is Federal law, and there can be or are more restrictive state or local laws.
-there are carrier company policies
-there are people on both sides of the counter who know the laws
-there are people on both sides of the counter who know the carrier policies
-there are employees/supervisors who know their policies
-there are employees/supervisors who do not know their policies
-and there are workers and supervisors with their own ideas or anti gun agendae

and our personal experience(s) will vary depending upon which of the above we encounter at any given store facility or attempt to ship.

My last fight was over UPSing two repro M1841 barrels only at the local city UPS Store.

Sigh.

Curt

[fortdonelsonrelics]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Its rather quite simple - box it at home, print the label at home, and just drop off the box. No questions asked, no explaining why the item you are shipping that has a trigger and a barrel is not a gun according to federal law. Its just not worth the time trying to explain it.

John Walsh

[JED]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

Excellent. Thanks for the education everyone!

Cheers,
Joe

[KPavia]

Re: Shipping antique firearms through USPS

When I have shipped muskets via UPS and if they ask me what I'm shipping, I call them "wood and metal mechanical parts." I've had no problem yet.