Were These Sold By Sutlers?

[Cumpston1862]

Gents-

I have been looking for information on these badges and I am having trouble finding anything conclusive.

As to whether they were sold by sutlers during the war to soldiers or if they were a post war veteran item. Several states seemed to be represented. I have seen pictures of Illinois (ILL), Iowa (Iowa), Indiana (IND), Wisconsin (WIS) and Pennsylvania (PA). I am sure there is more but these are the only ones I have seen. Any clarification or link you could direct me to would be appreciated.

Regards,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Hallo!

I believe that to be a GAR "state," "city/state," or "city" badge worn on the top of GAR medals.





Curt

[Ambrose Bierce]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Steve Osman used to sell these based upon originals. As to their provenance, perhaps he could be contacted and can weigh in on this subject?

[Scott Sheets]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

John McElroy of the 16th Illinois mentions wearing a white metal ILL badge on the top of his forage cap in his memoirs about Andersonville. I don't know if it is the same style as above, but worth looking in to.

"All the older prisoners knew me by the nick-name "Illinoy" --a designation arising from my wearing on my cap, when I enetered prison, a neat little white metal badge of "ILLS".

[Jeremy Bevard]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

If i rememebr corectly Osman sold them I believe based on oringinals as veteran badges that were available for purchase of veteran volunteer regiments. Those that reenlisted. Michigan had one just like the top picture.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

At the last Richmond show I checked with several relic dealers about this same subject. One dealer deals exclusively with reunion, GAR and UCV items and has a very large (huge) inventory. He stated that he has never seen any badges such as these on reunion items. He has so many examples that if he hasn't seen one IMO they probably aren't reunion items. I have also seen a period photo of a soldier with one of these badges I believe it was IOWA. Also the stamped badges had provisions for mounting soldered on the back. No provision for hanging on a ribbon. I also asked around about the two different types (cast vs stamped). Since they were sold by sutlers it is a strong possibility that they were made by more than one vendor and may differ in manufacture. Stanley Phillips book Excavated Artifacts from Battlefields and Campsites, supplement 1, has some soldier cast lead ones in addition to one of the cast brass type listed. At the time the book was published around 1980 it was thought that most of these badges were worn by troops in the Western Theater. Howard Crouch's book "Civil War Artifacts" also has the stamped variety shown but still states that they were worn in the Western Theater. That book was published in 1995. Since they are so rare it would take quite an effort to find and document all the locations where these items are found. I do know of one that was found near Petersburg.

[roundshot]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

There was a well written article on these badges written by Jim Stanley titled "Western Theatre State Pins", found on page 18 of Vol. 32 No. 4 of the North South Trader's Civil War magazine. I regret I no longer have it but the conclusion was that sutlers likely sold these pins to reenlisting veteran troops as well as to soldiers in the field as a way to designate their home state. There are a bunch of excavated examples to be seen in Charles Harris' "Civil War Relics of the Western Theater." Many are from early war sites which sort of flies in the face of the "veteran" theory.

I'm sure you can get hold of this back issue from NST Magazines website if you are so inclined. Like Jim, I've noted them in a couple photos as well. I remember Steve Osman having a number of repros of these in years past.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Gents-

Thanks for all the replies. I have heard that as well that they were supposedly sold to re-enlisting veteran volunteers. I have also seen examples of both cast and stamped examples. Attached below are some more examples I have come across while doing research for these badges.

Jim- Do you happen to recall where or do you have a link to this picture of an Iowa soldier wearing one of these badges by chance?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Hallo!

Danke Herr Jim and Bob.. it is always nice to learn something new everyday.

Curt

[roundshot]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

The back issue of NST with the article on these badges is still available: http://www.nstcivilwar.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?207

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

John McElroy of the 16th Illinois mentions wearing a white metal ILL badge on the top of his forage cap in his memoirs about Andersonville. I don't know if it is the same style as above, but worth looking in to.

"All the older prisoners knew me by the nick-name "Illinoy" --a designation arising from my wearing on my cap, when I enetered prison, a neat little white metal badge of "ILLS".

Scott-

That description sounds very close if not exactly what were looking at. Do you recall where you saw this passage from John McElroy of the 16th Illinois?

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Curt-

The pictures of the badges you posted are very similar to these State Veteran Badges and probably inspired them. In fact the first time I ran across one of these "veteran" badges was when I saw one being sold by a relic dealer some years ago that said he found it on private property near an 1864 battlefield in Georgia IIRC. Anyway the dealer surmised it was a badge lost by a veteran of the GAR returning to visit the battlefield sometime after the war and did not think it was a war time item. Part of my confusion regarding these pins.

[Scott Sheets]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

It's in Andersonville Vol. 2, a story of rebel military prisons. by John McElroy.

I'm not sure on a page number, on my Kindle it is location 1148.

If you have a kindle, or the reading app on a device you can download the book for either free or like a buck.

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

The back issue of NST with the article on these badges is still available: http://www.nstcivilwar.com/cgi-bin/Display_Item.asp?207

Thanks for the spoon feeding Bob...just ordered a back issue! :)

[Cumpston1862]

Re: Were These Sold By Sutlers?

Thanks Scott I will check it out!