M1861 Euroarms misfires

[KPavia]

So, I need some help from the experts here.

My M1861 is a Euroarms. It misfires like crazy, as in I used up ALL my caps at Bentonville and didn't even get 10 shots off on the second day.
The tricky part is it only misfires after I've already cleaned it out. At first I thought I just sucked at cleaning it in the field. So at Bentonville I made sure to have as spotless as I could, cleaned it out really well, took off the nipple, cleaned it out with a pick and also the vent hole in the barrel. I put plenty of caps through it when I was done just to clear it out, ran dry patches through it to dry it out in case some liquid was going to pool at the bottom. Still, after all that, it just wouldn't shoot on the second day.

Is this typical to a Euroarms? Any advice on anything I can do?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Hallo!

If you put a cap on, place the muzzle next to some grass on the ground, and fire...... does the blast move the blades of grass?

Does your cone (nipple) have the very small "N-SSA style competition" sized vent (touch hole/flash hole) or does it have the more original style larger one?

Italian M1861's tend to be more "problematical' in general" in that the flash channel is manufacturing expedited by using right angle turns and that NUG makes them sensitive to cap type, and cleaning issues where accumulated coke and coking narrows the flash channel.

Curt

[mike44thva]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Not to piggyback on Master Curt's insight, but...

I helped a poor young soul at Bentonville several times who kept having misfires. The top of his cone kept getting gunked up with residue from his caps. I don't know if he had a bad batch, but he was using CCI caps (which I don't have any experience with). At least 8 times, with multiple repeat instances. I don't know what kind of cone was in his musket.

[RW0369]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I've used a Euroarms 1861 since 1996, they are very problematic after cleaning in the field. A few things that help(after much trial and error:
1) Pull the cone and thoroughly clean the cone and the vent hole. (Leave the cone out, and put it in your implement pouch overnight)
2) Ensure the barrel is as dry as possible, I also put the bayonet on, and stick it in the ground so the rifle is inverted not recommend with Hindu bayonets(great excuse to by an original bayonet).
3) If possible let stand overnight, or until needed again. I've used mine as a tent pole or to hold up a corner of canvas. Something not seen often at mainstream events.
4) Inspect cone and vent hole to make sure they are clear of obstruction, screw the cone back in.
5) If possible test fire with just a cap and ensure that it moves some grass.

Lastly, I haven't had much trouble with CCI caps, but Euroarms Springfields seem to work best with RWS caps.

[KPavia]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Thanks for the replies guys. When I put caps through it, it does move grass when I hold it up to grass. Because of that, I assume that liquid must pool in the barrel when I stack it away.
However, the vent hole in the cone is really narrow. It's the original Euroarms nipple so I'm assuming it is not the original wider size. I've heard of people drilling it out. Is that possible?

[Michael Comer]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

They can be drilled out to make a larger hole. I have also seen nipples with the larger hole for sale but can't remember where exactly.

[Ambrose Bierce]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Sorry to hear you had such issues, Kenny. I know that is frustrating.

For all of the good advice posted thus far, before you go boring out any part of the musket, I recommend contacting a company that specializes in black powder arms to discuss the problem and possible solutions. While advice and suggestions are one thing, home-experimentation is often more trouble than it is worth and it may cost more to fix an issue you tried to remedy on your own than it would just sending it to the vendor and having it done right the first time.

I have had a lot of work done on my muskets by Lodgewood, but that is just one company that can provide the services to fix the issue.

Bottom line is that something is obviously up with the ignition system (though caps may be a contributor--I am unsure, like other respondents) and I think it would be best to have it examined by a professional.

[KPavia]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Sorry to hear you had such issues, Kenny. I know that is frustrating.

For all of the good advice posted thus far, before you go boring out any part of the musket, I recommend contacting a company that specializes in black powder arms to discuss the problem and possible solutions. While advice and suggestions are one thing, home-experimentation is often more trouble than it is worth and it may cost more to fix an issue you tried to remedy on your own than it would just sending it to the vendor and having it done right the first time.

I have had a lot of work done on my muskets by Lodgewood, but that is just one company that can provide the services to fix the issue.

Bottom line is that something is obviously up with the ignition system (though caps may be a contributor--I am unsure, like other respondents) and I think it would be best to have it examined by a professional.

Will do. I didn't think about contacting Lodgewood. I'll email them and see what they advise.
Thanks all.

- - - Updated - - -

They can be drilled out to make a larger hole. I have also seen nipples with the larger hole for sale but can't remember where exactly.

I didn't think that sutlers sold musket nipples with different size holes, but after a quick search, I found that Regimental Quartermaster sells replacement nipples with both small and large holes.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Hallo!

You are moving across "cultural" lines in hobby-history, with the differences between the "Italian" version of an original cone (nipple) and the evolved competition style (AKA 'N-SSA) nipple.
In brief, when the "Enfield" was first reproduced, the larger market was actually the N-SSA so they were made competitive shooting style cones with a very small vent hole.

I tend to believe in the minimum amount of 'fuss' to fix a problem. IMHO, I would order two replacement "reenactor nipples' with large vents as if cap strength is not your issue or one of several issues, then a quick swap is all you need.

Yes, cones can be drilled out either to more or less reproduce the two internal chambers, or more commonly lads jsut drill out the whole thing constant end to end. Cones come in various stages of hardness. Some are soft enough to drill with normal metal drill bits. Others in the middle need carbide or tungsten tipped drill bits. Very hard ones are a chore, require a hard drill bit, oil, and the ability to drill at slower speeds (so as to bite, not overheat and burn, and not risk shattering fragments everywhere such into your face and eyes.

Not knowing your tools and skill set, I would recommend just swapping it out and keeping a spare (as did CW soldiers) in your cartridge box and/or the modern gun tool box in your vehicle.

Curt

[Cumpston1862]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Kenny-

The gents above have given you some good advice. What I can tell you is that I had the exact same experience with my Armisport 1861. My understanding is the model 1861 both original and repro had this issue. And I could be wrong but from different sources I have read that was one of the reasons for them making the Model 1863.

So I purchased an 1861 Armisport from Lodgewood and from the get go had mixed results with it firing. I asked around and many people recommended drilling out the nipple. Having the tools and know how I tried this fix. Now in an effort to fix the problem without over doing it I only drilled it out one size larger than what it was drilled to at the factory. It did not solve the problem and as you experienced I was burning up caps with no results. I than decided to drill it to the next size. This too did not fix the problem.

Speaking to some other pards and doing some research the next possible fix was drilling out the barrel vent from the nipple to the barrel chamber. I was very hesitant to do this as I was concerned about destroying my musket. But after travelling to the 150th of Resaca and firing all of two rounds before having to take hits because my musket wouldn't work I was desperate. So when I got home I decided to drill out the vent. I drilled it out ONE size larger than it was presently so were not talking a lot. And this did the trick at my next event I fired over 50 rounds with maybe one misfire.

[maillemaker]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I'd be willing to be you are using CCI caps.

I shoot N-SSA competition. CCI caps are notorious for being weaker than RWS caps. I find that CCI caps will work reliably with my P53 Enfield (Whitacre barrel), but do not work reliably with my James River Armoury Richmond Carbine.

I believe this is due to the right-angle, cross-drilled fire channel on the Richmond, which, I believe, you have on your 1861 Springfield also. That is why you have the clean-out screw, just like my Richmond. The Enfield has a "straight-in" fire channel from the cone to the bore, so the cap blast does not have to turn 90 degrees to get into the bore.

The CCI caps are now labeled "Multi-Purpose" but if you peel off the top label it still says "For Reenactor Use" underneath. The story I heard is that one of the old hotter CCI caps fragmented and got someone in the eye so they now make weaker caps.

I won't use them in competition. I only buy the German Dynamite Nobel RWS musket caps.

Even if you stored the gun butt-down and oil collected in the fire channel, if you snap a couple of caps before firing all that should get blown out.

Another obvious question: You have thoroughly cleaned the firearm, including the fire channel, correct?

Steve

[KPavia]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Another obvious question: You have thoroughly cleaned the firearm, including the fire channel, correct?

I do clean it very thoroughly, but I've never removed the clean out screw. I'll do that and see what I discover.

[maillemaker]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I find pipe cleaners to be very useful for cleaning out the fire channel into the bore. I use Q-tips to clean out the threaded portion where the cone threads in.

For a period solution the pick included on a "Sergeant's Tool" works well also.

Also if you unship the barrel and place the breech end in a bucket of hot water and "pump" the barrel with a cleaning rod and patch, the pumping action vigorously draws and expels water through the fire channel and really helps clean it out.

As was pointed out by someone else, prior to loading up and shooting you should always "snap" a couple of caps first. When you do this, point the muzzle at a leaf or some grass on the ground. The cap blast should easily disturb them. Period sources indicate you could snuff out a candle during aiming practice in this way from some distance from the candle.

Snapping caps verifies the barrel and fire channel is free of obstruction and blows any residual oil out of the fire channel that might result in a hang or mis-fire.

On the subject of cleaning, you should also use a "breech scraper" as part of your regimen. Powder has a tendency to form hard coke deposits on the breech face. This deposit can grow/glow hot enough to cook off powder during loading, especially during periods of rapid firing.

Steve

[reddcorp]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

They can be drilled out to make a larger hole. I have also seen nipples with the larger hole for sale but can't remember where exactly.

Be careful not to remove too much metal from the cone as in may weaken. Then when you try to tighten it down, it can snap flush with the barrel. Not easily removed.

Andy Redd

[maillemaker]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I've been shooting live fire in N-SSA competition for about 3 years now. I've shot Pedersoli, Euroarms, Pietta, Uberti, Armisport, and custom Whitacre and Hoyt barrels with their stock and/or custom cones. I've never modified any of them and never had misfire problems, with the exception of about 4 times when I forgot to or did not adequately blast out oil from the fire channel, and when I discovered that CCI musket caps are weak.

Steve