M1861 Euroarms misfires

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I've been shooting live fire in N-SSA competition for about 3 years now. I've shot Pedersoli, Euroarms, Pietta, Uberti, Armisport, and custom Whitacre and Hoyt barrels with their stock and/or custom cones. I've never modified any of them and never had misfire problems, with the exception of about 4 times when I forgot to or did not adequately blast out oil from the fire channel, and when I discovered that CCI musket caps are weak.

Steve

Steve:

Is this with using LIVE ammo? Anytime I rammed paper down the barrel of my Armi 61, it never misfired. I notice at events, when dumping powder only, I don't have too much problem the 1st day of the event. I rarely have problems with firing early on, but no matter how well I clean it for the next day, I will have problems then. Naturally when I get home, I can do a more thorough clean up than I can do at events.

Kevin Dally

[maillemaker]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Is this with using LIVE ammo? Anytime I rammed paper down the barrel of my Armi 61, it never misfired. I notice at events, when dumping powder only, I don't have too much problem the 1st day of the event. I rarely have problems with firing early on, but no matter how well I clean it for the next day, I will have problems then. Naturally when I get home, I can do a more thorough clean up than I can do at events.

Yes, it is with live ammo, but naked bullets only no paper.

It may very well be that when burning powder in a relatively unconstrained space (no bullet) that it burns less completely and with more fouling.

Steve

[calconfederate]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I find pipe cleaners to be very useful for cleaning out the fire channel into the bore. I use Q-tips to clean out the threaded portion where the cone threads in.

For a period solution the pick included on a "Sergeant's Tool" works well also.

Also if you unship the barrel and place the breech end in a bucket of hot water and "pump" the barrel with a cleaning rod and patch, the pumping action vigorously draws and expels water through the fire channel and really helps clean it out.

As was pointed out by someone else, prior to loading up and shooting you should always "snap" a couple of caps first. When you do this, point the muzzle at a leaf or some grass on the ground. The cap blast should easily disturb them. Period sources indicate you could snuff out a candle during aiming practice in this way from some distance from the candle.

Snapping caps verifies the barrel and fire channel is free of obstruction and blows any residual oil out of the fire channel that might result in a hang or mis-fire.

On the subject of cleaning, you should also use a "breech scraper" as part of your regimen. Powder has a tendency to form hard coke deposits on the breech face. This deposit can grow/glow hot enough to cook off powder during loading, especially during periods of rapid firing.

Steve

I use pipe cleaners soaked in black powder bore solvent after every shoot. I follow a strict cleaning and maintenance routine, never had a misfire.

[MuleyGil]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

If you live fire, use the nipples with the smaller vent hole. A large vent hole can cause the hammer to fly back.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

I do clean it very thoroughly, but I've never removed the clean out screw. I'll do that and see what I discover.

If you have repeatedly fired your repro US 1861 and never removed the clean-out screw (aptly named) to clean the flash channel, my guess is you are going to discover two things...First, a clean and open flash channel greatly assists ignition and second, that removing the clean-out screw after it has been left to rust itself in place is not easily accomplished. You may need the services of a professional gunsmith. Todd Watts or another gunsmith who works on black powder reproductions can accomplish this.

The stainless steel replacement cone from Regimental Quartermaster comes with a larger vent for use in (re)enactments vs live fire (NSSA). If you are worried about drilling out the base of the cone you have (no more than 1/16") than this is any easy fix. It is important to understand that no matter what steps you take, some reproduction US 1861 rifle-muskets may not be 100% reliable. There are a variety of reasons or there can be, but primarily it is because of the bolster design of the Italian made reproduction US 1861s. The bolster seat and flash channel are not as "open" as the originals were. The springs are not as strong and the reproduction cone is tapered like a V instead of in the shape of a figure 8 (meaning large at the base). And if you don't ram the charge properly, the powder may not be seated properly against the flash channel. Mainstream re-enactments (like Bentonville) generally prohibit ramming which just exacerbates the misfiring problem. The point is, it may be a variety of different issues. You can address all of them and still not be 100% sure of fixing the problem.

That said, I have seen quite a few reproduction US 1861s which are reliable firing muskets. Todd Watts has one he picked up cheap for a unit loaner that is not, and does not seem capable of being made into a reliable shooter. My US 1861 is a custom conglomeration of original parts with a Mike Yeck barrel that was made in the days before there were Italian reproduction US 1861s. The Yeck US 1861 has never misfired while I've had it. The old Dixie Gunworks Japanese US 1861 kits (made by Miroku) were not problematic. Again, better springs, better cone and better bolster design.

[StonewallSharpeson]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

*note, I was not initially aware Bentonville was a live-fire event. I've only once had a musket that did not like to fire for me live (ironically a Pedersoli M1861), and I returned it and got a new one. My reply more concerns the shooting of blanks, which I thought was your problem.

One issue I've had (with my Pedersoli P53 and M1861 (though I've had both ArmiSport and Euroarms muskets previously)) is that they don't like to fire on a small powder charge. So far we've covered maintenance and manufacturing issues, but another problem could be that you simply may not be loading enough powder, or not loading your powder in a way your musket likes. The Black-Powder Gods are fickle and must be satisfied.

When you load a musket live, the ramming of the round condenses the powder in the breach and forces powder into the cone. This does not happen [as much] when you fire blanks. So there are a couple things you can do:
One is to bang on the side of your musket and/or tap it against the ground to help seat the powder in the breach and get powder into the cone.
The second is to double-load (a standard blank), or roll your own blanks with a larger powder charge. Works most every time. And it yields a more satisfying bang.
Thirdly, and related to the above two, is that most people like to be conservative with powder and only have 50 or 60 grain blanks. When you level your musket, the powder slides forward in the barrel and is not in as close proximity to the vent. When you fire, the spark can die before it reaches the powder.

Just my humble experiences.

Miscellaneously, if you're having misfires firing your Springfield live, you can take out the vent screw and pour a pinch of powder directly into the cone, that will get your musket to fire.

[Michael Comer]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Bentonville was not a live fire event by any means. This thread started with discussion of a musket not firing blanks and has incorporated discussion of live firing. Just want to make sure there is no confusion here.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

Hallo!

Where the flash channel or 'touch-hole' enters the barrel's breech in relation to the standing "column" or volume of powder can make a big difference when using light loads.

If the top of the powder charge is (well) below the touch-hole, and the flash reduce by poor caps and/or congested/restricted flash flow, the flash can "go over" the charge and not ignite it consistently.

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Re: M1861 Euroarms misfires

NOTE:
Do not pour black powder directly into the cone. Do not load double charges of black powder into the barrel. These are not recommended and they are not safe actions to achieve the desired results.