Have we gone soft?

[50thGAInfantry]

Re: Have we gone soft?

After reading through the thread, I see a lot of men that have been in the hobby for the same amount of time that I have been ALIVE. I do not hold a candle to any of you guys, but let me go back to Tyler Underwood's comment about needing an event that focuses on drill:

Quote: "What our end of the hobby really needs is a good LONG weekend of camp of instruction."

As someone who has been campaigning for only a few years, I second this completely. As much as I try to read Silas Tackitt's Library of Links, as much as I try to decipher the original manuals, nothing can compare to taking a weekend and just DOING it all with COs and NCOs who really know the stuff. In fact, I had been fantasizing about trying to organize something like this at Pickett's Mill next year. We need more drill, and we need to hold such events at least once a year.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Have we gone soft?

In fact, I had been fantasizing about trying to organize something like this at Pickett's Mill next year. We need more drill, and we need to hold such events at least once a year.

Let it be no more of a fantasy, young padawan. We need to plan one at the Mill soon! :)

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Socializing is natural. It will occur on its own. Quit worrying about creating a time slot for it. If you issue rations and give them some time to build fires and cook, they will gather in groups and talk and gossip around the fires as they work.

That's two home runs in a row, Joe... :)

God knows I've never been a paragon of campaigner virtue, but if I make the decision to go to that kind of event, I really don't want to see it broken up for official social time. Good leaders know when to give folks a few hours down, but also how to keep it period.

On the other hand, I've seen a great march opportunity torpedoed because too many guys spent Friday night drinking beer instead of hydrating. I've seen a wonderful trench warfare scenario cut in half because someone decided we should have recess Saturday afternoon.

That's not necessary. If the scenario doesn't allow for period recreation (like Westville or Winter '64), ending mid-morning on Sunday still allows time for people to hang out at Cracker Barrel or IHOP on the way home.

But I remember an event some years ago, the one at which I met Mr. Wickett and Mr. Ackerett. As I recall our little crew barely had time to sleep, but I can't think of anything more "entertaining" in the campaigner line than the hours we spent holding our sketchy line against a crafty and more numerous foe. It would make great fodder for future socializing, but I hope that would wait till we're done with the event we next meet at. If we do it at the event itself, we're just cheating ourselves of new memories.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Have we gone soft?

The responses here have far surpassed what I expected when this discussion started in the Mod Folder. I want to thank all of you for that. It is quite refreshing compared to the response on Facebook, which turned into an opportunity to bash "mean, old authentics". Not unexpected, but not productive either.

For the record, I agree with the premise of this discussion and that is why we put it out to our social media followers. In summary, it is time to discuss it. We have, in my opinion, become soft and the posts here have, I think, provided some answers to this conundrum.

Here is what I have taken out of this discussion. Please chime in if your take is different:

1) Events need to take more care to structure period-correct activities to keep the participants busy. If we simply follow the history, people will be too busy to have idle time. As has already been mentioned numerous times, the answer to this issue is the history. If an event has a historically correct timeline of the scenario that we are portraying, the answer is right there. Isn't the goal to "do what they did"? Participants may bitch about what is done at an event, but it is pretty hard to complain if you can point at a history book, OR's etc, and say that indeed, we "did what they did."

2) Remember when the debate used to be "five day events vs. two day events"? When did it become "two day events vs. one day events?" Are we really unfocused enough that we can't plan two days of activities to keep the participants engaged in the scenario? Don't get me wrong. I also believe that it is hard to "catch up" with old friends at events. Very often, I see people in passing that I have known for over a decade and before I know it, the event is over and there was no time to stop and visit, especially if they are on the opposing side. But, maybe this is something that we could accomplish outside of events. Internally, we have discussed holding an "AC Conference" once a year to get together socially outside of the event structure and just have some modern fun together while comparing notes on the latest trends, schedules, techniques, vendors, and research. Is this something that be of interest to you? The Annual WIG Meeting used to fit the bill for this type of interaction. Maybe it is time to figure out something new. If there is interest, please reply to this thread. It would help us decide whether this would be a worthwhile pursuit.

3) Leaving Early - I don't know when this started or why, but it has got to stop. First, I noticed it at adjunct events and it seems to have bled over into our EBUFU efforts. Is anyone else just flat embarrassed when roll is called on Sunday morning and half of the guys are gone? I simply can't fathom how people can't stay for at least a full weekend. I can't. I perfectly understand the long drives. Done it plenty of times and still do, but it makes no sense to me how we can basically have a Saturday event and that is it.

As an event organizer, I have been very aware that ending the scenario on Saturday is one way that encourages people to leave early. If, in essence, the event is "over" on Saturday afternoon, the urge is very strong for some people to leave, but even in that case, I don't understand. Have we truly become so soft that we can't hack it for two days? In my mind, if you aren't there for Sunday roll call, you didn't officially attend. I am open to a debate on this point, but that's how I feel.

In conclusion, the best events I have ever attended were some the most difficult ones. They were the kind of events that everyone complained about when we were actually doing it, but crowed about after they concluded. The sentiment in this thread, expressed by some of the most experienced people in the hobby, matches my own perspective. To answer the original question, "Have we become soft?". Yes. Yes, we have, but if we follow the history as best we can, the answers are staring us right in the face.

[beltplate53]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Leaving early from an event sets a bad example for the new pards. I can attest to this because when I started we had a First Sgt. who left on a Saturday night. Not knowing any better and figuring that's what is done I had left too. After that I caught a ride with our company Captain to an event. That's where I learned that, no, you stay till the end and to be quite frank, the best day was on Sunday. You could definitely feel a difference in the attitude as everyone wanted to be there and it was a blast. I would never consider leaving early as it is embarrassing and a let down to the unit. I also don't commit to events when I know I can not free up the whole time. Yes, standing at roll call and a quarter of the troop is missing does not bode well for the unit.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Good leaders know when to give folks a few hours down, but also how to keep it period.

My point exactly, Mike.

Thurs- arrival and step off, period operations only
Fri- period operations only
Sat- period ops until sundown then rest for everyone after dark. End scenario at dark.
Sun- Goodbyes and travel time.

Nothing is wrong with that. No standards are compromised. All get a good night's rest and are fresh for Sunday's goodbyes and/or presentations.

Mentally, it gives gents the ability to focus on the task then worry about socializing later.

Too easy. It can be done.

[NMVolunteer]

Re: Have we gone soft?

That would be good, but would such a schedule start at 8:00am Thursday, or afternoon Thursday? Presumably there would be driving time involved to get to events; the closest events to me are 30 minutes away, while a few have been 5 hours or more one-way. Careers can get in the way of a hobby, and in my experience directors prefer the Friday-Monday time off instead of a Thursday-Friday leave time.

Michael Denisovich

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Have we gone soft?

That would be good, but would such a schedule start at 8:00am Thursday, or afternoon Thursday? Presumably there would be driving time involved to get to events; the closest events to me are 30 minutes away, while a few have been 5 hours or more one-way. Careers can get in the way of a hobby, and in my experience directors prefer the Friday-Monday time off instead of a Thursday-Friday leave time.

Michael Denisovich

It doesn't have to. Step off could be at 5pm Thurs. The schedule has been done before. We can be flexible.

The Monday thing might be hard for travelers also, but if this was only 1 or 2 quality events per year and this is what we attended (Like WWI does their events- 1 or 2 big events per year and very few small ones) then we (i.e. those that attend quality events regularly more than mainstream ones) could all make travel options around it. Where there is a will, there is a way.

I think the local, mainstream events can sap manpower and organizational power from quality events. We all only have so much time and money. I guess AmCiv is in a different position than most other time periods in this regard since it is the oldest and small towns throughout the country have traditionally done these events.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Have we gone soft?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Assuming you work "office hours" and don't work weekends, if you can take off Thursday and Friday, you can also take off Friday and Monday.

There was a time we'd leave for an event after work on Friday, drive all night if we had to and be there Saturday morning, leaving Sunday afternoon, as late as 4 p.m., again driving all night if we had to, and go to work tired on Monday.

But suggesting that everyone take off two work days (Thursday and Friday) and not gain the advantage in scenario time (ending on Saturday night) is just asking them to leave early. If I know the event is done at dark:30 Saturday night and there is no plan for Sunday, I'm getting on the road and maybe grabbing a hotel room for a good sleep and meal. Why stay at the event?

And none of this takes into account those guys that work weekends and have to take two vacation days just to have a "weekend". When you ask them to take off Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you just lost them. They aren't coming.

And, it has long been proven that local events are where the majority of new recruits are found. If you brush them off, you kill recruiting opportunities. We should be doing more small, local living histories at battlefield parks. A unit event at a park doesn't require an AC folder to be a success. Six guys doing a firing demo and talking gear with locals are much more approachable than 40 guys doing company drill and maneuver drills for a large crowd.

"... but if I make the decision to go to that kind of event, I really don't want to see it broken up for official social time. Good leaders know when to give folks a few hours down, but also how to keep it period."

I don't think this means what you think it means.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Joe, were you at Blakeley last month? I was. It worked there. We had Sat night off. Guys could relax and chill a bit after 24 hour ops the previous night. No issue that I saw. Yeah, some might leave, but that is up to their resolve or personal schedule. I am just glad they came out to participate.

And that means just what I bent it to mean ... we can have time off without breaking period.

[NMVolunteer]

Re: Have we gone soft?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Assuming you work "office hours" and don't work weekends, if you can take off Thursday and Friday, you can also take off Friday and Monday.

There was a time we'd leave for an event after work on Friday, drive all night if we had to and be there Saturday morning, leaving Sunday afternoon, as late as 4 p.m., again driving all night if we had to, and go to work tired on Monday.

But suggesting that everyone take off two work days (Thursday and Friday) and not gain the advantage in scenario time (ending on Saturday night) is just asking them to leave early. If I know the event is done at dark:30 Saturday night and there is no plan for Sunday, I'm getting on the road and maybe grabbing a hotel room for a good sleep and meal. Why stay at the event?

And none of this takes into account those guys that work weekends and have to take two vacation days just to have a "weekend". When you ask them to take off Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you just lost them. They aren't coming.

It's a subtle tic I have noticed with my current employers. They are fine with an extended weekend, but get annoyed at two days in a row. I cannot really explain it, as it confuses me too.

Michael Denisovich

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Have we gone soft?

It's a subtle tic I have noticed with my current employers. They are fine with an extended weekend, but get annoyed at two days in a row. I cannot really explain it, as it confuses me too.

Michael Denisovich

With a white collar job, many can get F-M off or Th-Su off. in the past, I remember some events beginning on Thurs. If it is only 1 or 2 events per year, that is not much for this hobby.

But I digress- back to how 'soft' we have gotten. ;)

[NMVolunteer]

Re: Have we gone soft?

With a white collar job, many can get F-M off or TH-Su off.

I'm salaried and public sector, but my employers still act strange about two days in a row.

Michael Denisovich

[Silas]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Joe was there, Johnny. We had a nice conversation about 40 Rounds events on one of the nights.

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: Have we gone soft?

Oh my gawd!!!!

Just do mainstream reenacting if you want to hang out around the camp fire and drink beer and talk about who knows what. I left the mainstream side of the hobby because that's all that it was. PERIOD! Guys wanted to play soldier from 2:00 - 3:00 in the afternoon to burn their powder. Other than that they wanted to talk and drink.

If that is what this is turning into, then I might as well camp out in my back yard because it's a hell of a lot cheaper!

Remember that we are doing this hobby to live the life of a ACW soldier for the weekend. If that isn't what you signed up for I hear that the Blue Grey Alliance guys are still needing more recruits.