CS "uniform" question

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Here is a quote from Rice Bulls Soldiering on Ramseurs North Carolinians at Chancelorsville;

"They made a soldierly though not a handsome appearance, as no two uniforms were exactly alike in color or material. The officers were much better dressed than their men; they had light gray uniforms, well fitted."

"The men looked to be well armed and equipped and so far as I could observe under rigid disipline."

Rice C. Bull
123rd N.Y.

[LWhite64]

Re: CS "uniform" question

[QUOTE=dave81276]But one thing is for certain. Within a single company, men would be issued jackets of the same style and with only minor variations, due to dying imperfections, of color.

Well after studdying CS uniforms for over 12 years now one thing I have learned is that for the most part, nothing is certain. A good reference to this is the Arthur Freemantle account of Liddell's Arkansas Brigade at Tullahoma. He mentions that even though they would be issued clothing, it would quickly disappear for the most part in favor of items sent from home or procured from other sources. I would say that depot clothing would should predominate in a group, but there wouldnt be complete uniformity.

Lee

[Jimmayo]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Since uniform replacement was on a need basis, a company may not appear to be uniformily clothed unless the majority received an issue from the same depot and lot at the same time. Most of us have seen returns where for instance 15 jackets and 10 trousers were issued to company of 50 men. That could mean that as many as 25 guys out of 50 would have either had a new jacket or pants. When you consider the fade time for some of the jean material, that makes for a wide color variation between new and used uniforms.

Soldiers coming back from the hospital may have received a new uniform upon their release. It may not have come from the depot that the company was being supplied from. Remember the previous discussion about CD jacket use in the ANV?

Look at the pictures of Confederate prisoners. There is a smattering of frock coats among the boys.

I wonder how much time has been spent around the campfire discussing this subject? I know I have logged more hours than I care to admit.

I think the best rational you can draw is that a majority of the enlisted ANV personnel had RD uniforms after they had been assigned long enough for whatever they previously had to wear out. Some of these would look similar in color. I think that is about the best you are going to get for the ANV.

I also agree 100 % with what was said in the previous post. Supply being what it was down South, I am sure lots of home clothes were worn. Even in the ANV the boys would send home for clothes for winter. There were packages coming from Yankee occupied Portsmouth to hometown companies during the entire war.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: CS "uniform" question

I am sure lots of home clothes were worn. Even in the ANV the boys would send home for clothes for winter. There were packages coming from Yankee occupied Portsmouth to hometown companies during the entire war.

Not just rebs, here is a photo of a member of the California Cavalry Battalion (2nd Mass Cav). Hi is wearing, what I belive to be, a civilian coat over a private purchase jacket. (I dont think it is a vest but it is possible)


I was looking at this CDV closer, And I feel that the coat is a military coat over a vest....still a great photo.

[tmdreb]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Though I don't feel it would be an always or never situation, I would agree that there should be a bit more uniformity in reenactor CS ranks. Having everyone wearing something different is just as wrong as everyone wearing the same thing. With time and partial issues, guys on detached duty, hospital, etc, there would be threads of commonality within a company. Not everyone would be wearing the same jacket, for example, but a few might have one style, a few in another, and so forth.

Sometimes, things were issued widely or just a few at a time, but we don't need to look like clothing, shoes, equipment and weapons were issued all one at a time.

[LWhite64]

Re: CS "uniform" question

I think Phil sums it up best, you shouldnt see everyone looking different, nor exactly alike. However having said that, there are a couple of areas that I think we should see a lot more uniformity in, that being shirts and leathers. Accoutrements are one area that we as living historians really work on, because you never read about those items being sent from home or privately purchased.

Lee

[dave81276]

Re: CS "uniform" question

In the less progressive wing of our unit there is an "I'll develop my own impression" attitude leading to the ridiculous. There is plenty of areas where a reb reenactor can express himself through non-issue items, i.e. headgear (I wear a mechanic's cap), trousers, overcoats, knapsacks, etc. Jackets were one of the main areas in which the Confederates strived for uniformity. This is naturally so, as the jacket was the easiest way to recognize friend from foe. A company should have a general pattern in similar shades, with a few other patterns thrown in, but sparsely, to recreate the soldiers returning from convalescence or prisoner exchange.

-Dave Eggleston

[LWhite64]

Freemantle account

Here is the account that I refered to earlier by Arthur Freemantle in regards to Liddell's Arkansas Brigade;

"The men were good-sized, healthy, and well-clothed, but without any attempt at uniformity in color or cut; but nearly all were dressed in either gray or brown coats and felt hats. I was told that even if a regiment was clothed in proper uniform by the Government, it would be parti-colored again in a week, as the soldiers preferred wearing the coarse home-spun jackets and trousers made by their mothers and sisters at home. The Generals very wisely allow them to please themselves in this respect, and insist only that their arms and accoutrements being kept in proper order."

[dave81276]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Considering the vegetable dyes used in Southern uniforms, there will be variation in shades amongst uniforms. In the eyes of an officer in an elite unit of the most industrialized army in the world, this reaction would be natural. Even had Fremantle seen action in the Crimea, while tattered, British Guardsmen, and the rest of the allies (excluding the Turks), would've had more colorfast uniforms and few articles besides mufflers, gloves, and fur coats from home. The Johnny usually had trowsers, hats, blankets, shirts, overcoats, socks, drawers, etc. sent from home. This would account for Fremantle's observations without overriding my assertion that the Government attained their closest uniformity in the realm of the jacket.

-Dave Eggleston

[LWhite64]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Actually Freemantle made note of the appearance of the Troops in the ANV, as well and still makes note of the mismatched appearance of the AOT men. Also note that Fremantle says that "I was told that even if a regiment was clothed in proper uniform by the Government, it would be particolored again in a week..." Also add to Fremantle the account of another Englishman, Yates Thompson, made reference in November of 1863 about some western confederates, stating;"Very soon a batch of about 200 Rebel prisoners were brought in, rough and ragged with no vestige of a uniform, but with good shoes and looking well fed."

Then Col. Garnet Wolseley of the British Army wrote just after Antietam; "Several regiments wer to a man clothed in the national uniform of grey cloth, whilst others presented a harlequin appearance, being dressed in every conceivable variety of coat, both as regards colour and cut."

I have a few more that I will post when I get home this evening. Also consider this, for a Georgia Regiment in 1863-64 has FOUR sources to be getting clothing from, The Central Govt, The State Govt, The Georgia Relief Society, and home.

Lee

[roundshot]

Re: CS "uniform" question

Here are a few descriptions of North Carolinians:

[Prisoners of Branch’s NC Brigade taken at Hanover C.H., VA, June 1862]
“The scene within [the prisoner’s compound] . . . reminded me of the witch-scene in Macbeth, or pictures of brigands or Bohemian gypsies at rendesvous, not less than five hundred men, in motley, ragged costumes, with long hair, and lean, wild, haggard, faces . . . Some were wrapped in blankets of rag-carpet, and others wore shoes of rough untanned hide . . . Some appeared in red shirts, some in stiff beaver hats; some were attired in shreds and patches of cloth; and a few wore the soiled garments of citizen gentlemen; but the mass adhered to homespun suits of gray, or “butternut,” and the coarse blue kersey common to slaves . . . They came from North Carolina . . . In a corner, lying morosely apart were a Major, three Captains, and three Lieutenants, - young athletic fellows, dressed in gray cassimere, trimmed with black, and wearing soft black hats adorned with black ostrich - feathers. Their spurs were strapped upon elegantly fitting boots, and they looked as far above needy seedy privates, as lords above their vassals.”
George A. Townsend, Campaigns of a Non-Combatant, pp. 104-105

[ Casualties of Garland’s NC Brigade at South Mountain, MD, September 1862]
“All around lay the Confederate dead - undersized men mostly, from the coast district of North Carolina, with sallow hatchet faces, and clad in “butternut” - a color running all the way from a deep, coffee brown up to the whitish brown of ordinary dust.”
Battles &Leaders, Vol. II, p. 558.

[Pender’s Division on the march to Gettysburg, PA, June 1863]
“The soldiers of this division are a remarkably fine body of men, and look quite seasoned and ready for any work. Their clothing is servicable, so also are their boots; but there is the usual utter absence as to colour and shape of their garments and hats: gray of all shades, and brown clothing, with felt hats, predominate.”
The Freemantle Diary, p. 180

[Lane’s NC Brigade at Cold Harbor, VA, June 1864]
“On the road stood a couple of Rebel officers, each in his gray overcoat [i.e., frock coat], and just behind a group of some twenty soldiers - the most gipsy-looking men imaginable, in their blue gray jackets and slouched hats; each with his rusty musket and well filled cartridge box.”
Letters of Colonel Theodore Lyman, etc., p.154

Bob Williams
Reilly's NC Battery