Oddball weapon

[KentuckyReb]

I was just wondering if somebody on here familiar with the older imports might be able to help me ID a musket for a friend of mine. Ran into him at an event this weekend and while we were talking I noticed his musket. He said he picked it up at that very event a few years earlier but didn't know anything about it. It's a .58 caliber 3-band weapon, with a nosecap like a '42 Springfield, but the downward-pointing 'horn' on the nosecap isn't as pronounced as it is on a '42. Not one single identifying mark on this weapon except for a 4-digit number on the upper left of the barrel, back near the breech, roughly where the import marks are on mine. Other than that, not a number or a letter on it anywhere. The vent piece where the cone screws in isn't actually part of the metal of the breech--it's a separate, drum-shaped piece. The thing that I noticed and thought might be a possible source of identification is the cross-hatching on the hammer spur. Rather than covering the whole surface of the spur, it's in the shape of a three-point-topped shield at the tip of the spur. I wish I had some photos to put up--my camera drowned like a rat at this event or I would. Just told him I'd ask and see if anybody could help. Appreciate any input.

[Johan Steele]

Re: Oddball weapon

The nosecap mentioned almost makes me suggest it might be a French Model 1859... Was the lockplate the smaller pattern w/ the hammer mounted on the forward half? That's an identifying feature of a lot of the Belgian, French and the Dresden as well... though you didn' mention that distinctive double barrel band set up.

[rebyank]

Re: Oddball weapon

Does it look something like this one? If so, this is a model 1822 french infantry musket.

hope this helps.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Oddball weapon

Well...the hammer sits back at the rear of the lockplate like most. The French '22 pic looks a lot like it, but it's a rifled .58 caliber and I don't recall that the rear of the plate comes to that point at the rear like the '22. I just did recall something. I lied to you guys--sat here and told you there were no letters on the thing. It has a numerically graduated elevation-adjustable rear sight, and at the base of the flip-up component is stamped "A & D". Perhaps that gives a little more insight. I appreciate you guys helping with this. He was really interested to see just where this thing came from and now it's got me curious as well.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Oddball weapon

Hallo Kamerad!

Not quite enough to go on here, but...

With such a scant description and no pictures, I would venture a first guess to be the French .58 Rifle-Musket.
These resemble the M1857 .69 muskets save for the smaller bore- using the same style barrel bands, etc., etc., as the Models 1842 and 1857.
These are not really "French," having been made in Belgium. The lockplates are usually unmarked, as are the barrels (except for Liege proofs), and occassionally a letter or two, or a letter and crown for the Liege maker.
A number of these are believed to have been purchased by Pondir as "first class" weapon rates, and are listed by the Ordnance Department as such (it is confusing as the calibres were not listed).

With a picture, I would try to make a more accurate reply... ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

The French M1859 Rifle had two, rather than three bands...

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Oddball weapon

Y'know...apologies to Johan/Shane and thanks to you, Herr Schmidt. This makes two votes for the French (well, Belgian) piece. And the lockplate is absolutely blank. My bud's gonna call me back in a couple of days, and I'll ask him just to make sure that it's a 3-band weapon. I'll bet it's not... I might just be 'making' it a 3-bander in my head since it's as long, roughly, as my '42. I have no French, other than what I pick up from WWII movies... could 'A&D' be the initials for something like 'elevation & windage' perhaps? Just spitballin' there. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Michael McComas]

Re: Oddball weapon

Does it look like this maybe?

[rebyank]

Re: Oddball weapon

Is that a Mauser? I heard they were making mausers around cw period. is this what they look like?

[Michael McComas]

Re: Oddball weapon

Yes, it is. Mdl. 1857 Mauser, reproduction by Davide Pedersoli & C. The USIMLT raffled one of them two years ago when they were brand new, and a few of us got to handle it. They're sweeeet. Never seen an original to compare it, but evaluating it solely on its own merit as a firearm, it was a very nicely made.

But back to the original question, my SWAG is that it might be Austrian. Look around on the barrel, maybe under the wood, for an eagle proof mark. That stamp was the only marking on my Austrian musket.

Of course, identifying a gun without a picture is like the four blind men describing an elephant. That general style of nosecap was in use from about 1800 until at least the 1860's.

[KentuckyReb]

Re: Oddball weapon

Sorry, guys. Haven't had 'net access for about a week. The storms hereabouts are playin' hob with our phone service. Still don't have it--using a computer at my Dad's house right now. But no, Michael, it didn't look like that Mauser. Thanks anyhoo... the guy can't get ahold of me right now, so I haven't been able to ask him if it's a three-band arrangement or not. Soon as he can get ahold of me I'll know.