Reforming the For Sale area

[paulcalloway]

We're seeing more and more problems with sellers in the Wanting to Sell section. Some folks are just lazy about getting goods shipped out after they receive payment, others seem downright malicious.

I'm wondering if we need to institute some sort of system to weed out sellers.

Perhaps a minimum reputation to post an item for sale, or a minimum number of posts, or a minimum time on the forum... or some combination thereof. You're never going to prevent the Casey Osgood types that go from reputable seller to bane of the hobby overnight... but perhaps you can prevent the guy nobody has ever heard of, and nobody ever will, from foisting a scam over on a poor, unsuspecting member of the forum.

Any thoughts on this?

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

I am not sure that there is much you can do to prevent this. Even ebay has problems from time to time, and if the threat of bringing down certain federal actions, fails to stop people; what will? If we start setting limitations; where do we set the line? No doubt that many of us on the AC have made great transactions with people who may not have exceptional reputation points. Possibly instead we should make available the steps to taking proper legal actions against those people who would scam others?

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[Chris Curtis]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

Maybe there's a way to go by time spent on the forum instead of post count or reputation? I don't post much, and I don't think I have any reputation.

Chris Curtis

[KathyBradford]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

It was mentioned that experiences from other areas of commerce have varied (e.g. "Allow six weeks for delivery" on t.v. advertising). Another concern is verification of payment. Checks take some time to clear, and some sellers may want to be assured of payment before sending their items. Would it be helpful to post some specific guidelines for buying and selling? Perhaps if everyone has the same expectations of the process, there will be fewer problems. This is a very valuable part of this forum, and my vote would be for the fewest restrictions needed to assure confidence. Does anyone have experience with mail fraud resolution? Below are some suggestions, but all of you with more experience, please step in here.

1. Items will be posted for sale only when they are in hand, ready to be sold and sent.

2. Items will be honestly described with complete information. Helpful information would include:
item description
material
maker
source
age
condition
photo, if possible
price
actual or approximate shipping costs and whether or not they are included
expected method of shipping
e-mail for seller that is regularly checked

3. Upon interest, potential buyer will post message on forum and contact seller through e-mail.

4. The potential buyer will then communicate interest or will decline within 24 hours.

5. Upon commitment to purchase, the buyer will send payment in the method requested within 48 hours (72 hours on the weekend). (Is it reasonable for both the buyer and seller to exchange phone numbers for large purchases?)

6. At the seller's discretion, a check may be held until it clears before sending item. However, banks clear checks within 7 business days of deposit.

7. Within _____ (input requested, and it may vary for different types of payment) business days of receipt of payment, the item will be shipped. The seller will send an e-mail message telling the buyer that it has been sent, by which method, and when to expect delivery.

8. The sale will be closed on the forum.

Is it useful to have a place to post concerns for situations that are way beyond resonable delivery times, non-delivery, or dishonesty? All but one experience I've had here have been very positive, and even the difficult one was eventually resolved when his mother was contacted by phone. Should one have to be an adult in order to sell so that mail fraud laws apply? I hesitate to suggest this because there are a lot of honorable people under 18 here. Any ideas?

These are just suggestions to cover the pitfalls that I've read about here. All of you who are more experienced, please advise.

[Fod]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

Paul et al,

I've bought quite a few items through the forum, and have had good luck to with both the responsiveness of the sellers and the quality of the items. in short, I haven't been ripped off yet. (Never had a problem with Casey, and had even included him on my unit recommended vendors list)

That said, I see it as my responsibility to make the decision about who I deal with. If I don't know someone personally, I consider whether the individual has been present on the forum and whether he is a member of a known group, how responsive he is or isn't to queries, etc. It's my money, it's my call, i assume the risk.

You provide a great service with the "approved vendor" list. I don't see where you should have to go beyond that to get in between dealings between individual forum members. If more folks paid you to provide the service, maybe I'd see it differently.

As a moderated public forum, your only responsibility, arguably, is to restrict those who have proven unreliable.

My two cents

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

Another quick note...with the concern of "waiting for checks to clear", sending a postal money order is as good as cash. While I am not an advocate of requiring this, I reccomend it. They are available at any post office and usually cost about a dollar.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[CJDaley]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

Perhaps all that is needed is that you need to contact the person via TELEPHONE before hand. I'm sure everyone still has a phone and chances are that if you talk to someone via the phone and they are willing to give you their number, you won't be screwed.

Other than that, the typical buyer beware and send money orders so you can track the payments via US mail.

[47thNYReb]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

We're seeing more and more problems with sellers in the Wanting to Sell section. Some folks are just lazy about getting goods shipped out after they receive payment, others seem downright malicious.

I'm wondering if we need to institute some sort of system to weed out sellers.

Perhaps a minimum reputation to post an item for sale, or a minimum number of posts, or a minimum time on the forum... or some combination thereof. You're never going to prevent the Casey Osgood types that go from reputable seller to bane of the hobby overnight... but perhaps you can prevent the guy nobody has ever heard of, and nobody ever will, from foisting a scam over on a poor, unsuspecting member of the forum.

Any thoughts on this?

I have purchased and sold several items through this site and the CWReenactor site and have had really good luck. The only time that I had any problems, I called information and got the fellows phone number and left him a message. When you find out where the fellow lives and can reach his home number ... well you can guess how fast the fellow responds. I expect to have a few dealings with less than savory types, the hobby is full of them as is the rest of society. If you plan and take precautions (Certified mail, trackable money orders, and similar steps) than you will most certainly be improving your odds. At the moment, I am waiting for a ************ issue shirt that I purchased from this site to arrive in the mail. If it doesn't arrive, than I will be listing this person as a risk to others and would hopefully put him out of business. I do not believe that we can blackball others based on number of postings. We have people who want to post as often as they can seemingly to impress others with their post count. This is a honor system and as gentlemen, we must give respect if we are to expect it ourselves. Respectfully yours, Thomas N. Rachal.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

I see more than a few members who join and their first post is in the Sale area. I don't know if that has been a problem. It is the forum I visit the least but it bugs me to see what looks like a join-to-sell membership.

[BarryDusel]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

It's hard as all get out to police this process. I do like the idea of telephone contact . Possibly, though the only way to insure you aren't getting ripped is to know the person you are dealing with. Other then that. In one of my other hobbies. We often had dead beats, scoudrels and theives. Eventually we proposed setting up a clearing house. It's a 3rd party operation and someone needs to agree to play the middle guy.As follows:
1) Funds for purchase are sent to a 3rd party.3rd party holds funds until the item is received by the purchaser . If the item is as posted . The buyer notifies the 3rd party .
2) Upon a satisfactory reply from the buyer the 3rd party forwards the funds to the seller.
3) In the event the item isn't as posted or the buyer isn't satisfied. The buyer doesn't receive the funds back until the seller notifies the 3rd party that the item is back in his possession.
Yeah, it's a bit heavy but, in the event of a seller w/o a minimum amount of posts or reputation points it may be the answer. It would also be useful with sellers who have had bad rep's in the past. Sorta like a parole/probation for vendors/ and others who want to sell through the site. But left a "bad taste".
In the event that someone fails to live up to the creed of honesty. Whether as a buyer or seller. A "stockade" is set up where the miscreant is listed until they clear up their problem(s).
Anyway, just my 2 pennies!

[Gallinipper]

Re: Reforming the For Sale area

Paul,
Some of the crap sold there notwithstanding(!) I've always felt one of the neater aspects of Ebay is their "Feedback" system, which rates the respective sellers & buyers and also serves to hold them accountable. I don't know how much time or effort would be required on your part, relative to the perceived value of something of this particular nature on the forum, but perhaps it's a thought. Needless to say, it would require the commitment of regular (and honest) input of those sellers/buyers involved in order to work effectively. I know our members are currently rated on Reputation Points. Perhaps something derivative of the Ebay system could be incorporated there, as well? Thanks.

Rich Croxton