Company J?

[FC Barlow]

Why is the letter "J" skipped in the letters assigned to companies in a regiment? Is there a military/common sense reason for skipping 'J' and using 'K' instead?

Seems like a basic question, but no one can give me a solid answer.

[CJDaley]

Re: Company J?

"J" looks too much like "I" so to avoid confusion........

[markj]

Re: Company J?

Another explanation is that "J" sounds too much like "A" and "K," so this was eliminated to reduce confusion on the drill field and in combat.

Yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

[billwatson]

Re: Company J?

True enough what Chris said, but there may be an even deeper reason rooted in alphabets. Check out this website:

http://www.6nc.org/about6nc/alphabet.html

Remember, we're talking about no letter "j" until the late 1700s....

[markj]

Re: Company J?

Hard to say. Perhaps reviewing 18th Century British manuals might shed further light on this question as well. Another way to preclude confusion was to refer to companies by number (i.e., 1st Company, 2nd Company, etc.). This practice was certainly carried over into, for example, ethnic German units, which incorporated sizeable numbers of veterans who had previously served in European armies. Several extant missives by troops of the 32nd (1st German) Indiana refer to their companies by number, rather than letter.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Hank Trent]

Re: Company J?

Bill Watson has it right. J wasn't fully considered a separate letter of the alphabet, so was often still left out or ignored when letters were used as letters or when putting things in alphabetical order. I've seen book signatures (meaning the sections that bookbinders fasten together) that skip the J when letters are used at the bottom of the first page of each signature to mark the order. Some period handwriting will use the same shape for capitol I and J. We have an 1830s English dictionary, in which words beginning with I and J are alphabetized mixed together as if they started with the same letter, even though a different symbol is used for the I and J that they start with.

Also, some embroidery samplers from the early 19th century omitted the J. According to a site on that topic at http://thesamplerhouse.com/body_history_lesson.html "Although a symbol existed to represent this sound, the letter "I" continued to serve for "I" and "J." Sampler inscriptions well into the 18th century show the "I" being used in place of the "J" symbol (for example, the name Jane would be spelled "Iane). Sometime after the year 1820 the "J" took on its own shape to become the tenth letter of the English alphabet."

Military companies were just one more example of the situation.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[markj]

Re: Company J?

Paragraph 71 (page 18) Revised United States Army Regulations of 1861 (rev. 1863) simply says:

On the organization of a regiment, the companies receive a permanent designation by letters beginning with A, and the officers are assigned to companies ; afterward, company officers succeed to companies as promoted to fill vacancies. Companies take place in the battalion according to the rank of their captains.

The CS Regulations of 1863 (para. 66) say the same thing.

Hardee (1855) refers to companies by their number (not a surprise since he translated the French Ordonnance hook, line, and sinker):

ARTICLE FIRST.- Formation of a Regiment in order of battle, or in line.

1. A regiment is composed of ten companies, which will habitually be posted from right to left, in the following order: first, sixth, fourth, ninth, third, eighth, fifth, tenth, seventh, second, according to the rank of captains.

2. With a less number of companies the same principle will be observed, viz.: the first captain will command the right company, the second captain the left company, the third captain the right center company, and so on.

3. The companies thus posted will be designated from right to left, first company, second company, &c. This designation will be observed in the manœuvres.

Maybe Scott says something else on "The Drill Network":

http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/Drill.htm

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[billwatson]

Re: Company J?

What Mark said, edited:

The letter was administrative and stayed with the company. You were always with A company or D company or whatever (unless there was a formal reorganization).

The number -- first, third, etc. -- changed with the seniority of the captain, and so did the company's position in the battalion. If you had the senior captain on Monday, you were First company, and on the right of the battalion. If he got killed and the lieutenant taking over the company was newer than some of the company commanders elsewhere in the battalion, your company position and number changed, fairly quickly, to reflect his status within the battalion, and the company with the senior captain became First company, taking the position on the right of the battalion when in line.

This doesn't make sense to us, but it perfectly reflects the philosophy of the military of the 19th century, which believed the men less important in the overall scheme of things than the seniority of the officers. We often tend not to try to deal with this in depicting history, often opting to give what everyone perceives as the most capable units/companies the letters A and B and also the designations first and second companies, and put them on the ends of the battalions in the hope that the collective experience of the men in those companies will have a good effect on battalion operations. :-) It's the same principle, applied at a different point.

[RockCityGuard]

Re: Company J?

The city of Washington D.C. (as many of us know) also has letter designated streets. The Letter J is missing from the list. It happens that Snopes.com covers this issue and controversy accusing the civil engineer of a grudge with Chief Justice John Jay. This however is false.

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/jstreet.htm

the letters I and J were often indistinguishable from each other (especially when handwritten), and in 18th century English they were still largely interchangeable. (The 1740 "New General English Dictionary" published in London had a single section for I and J, and the standard identification Thomas Jefferson used on his personal possessions was "T.I.") Having both an "I" and a "J" street would have been redundant at best and confusing at worst, so "J" ended up as the odd man out.

The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J,I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J,l) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England. The "J" was a common part of our language by the creation of our country, but tradition will always hold sway for quite some time.

[markj]

Re: Company J?

What Mark said, edited:

The letter was administrative and stayed with the company. You were always with A company or D company or whatever (unless there was a formal reorganization).

The number -- first, third, etc. -- changed with the seniority of the captain, and so did the company's position in the battalion. If you had the senior captain on Monday, you were First company, and on the right of the battalion. If he got killed and the lieutenant taking over the company was newer than some of the company commanders elsewhere in the battalion, your company position and number changed, fairly quickly, to reflect his status within the battalion, and the company with the senior captain became First company, taking the position on the right of the battalion when in line.

This doesn't make sense to us, but it perfectly reflects the philosophy of the military of the 19th century, which believed the men less important in the overall scheme of things than the seniority of the officers. We often tend not to try to deal with this in depicting history, often opting to give what everyone perceives as the most capable units/companies the letters A and B and also the designations first and second companies, and put them on the ends of the battalions in the hope that the collective experience of the men in those companies will have a good effect on battalion operations. :-) It's the same principle, applied at a different point.

All true, but I hasten to point out that in the case of the ethnic German regiment I mentioned (32nd Indiana), perhaps somewhat confusingly, the numerical sequence for companies was identical to their alpha sequence: viz: "A" was "1st Company," "B" was "2nd Company," "C" was "3rd Company," &c., &c. This appears to have been a (relatively short-lived) holdover from Prussian practice.

Indeed, in a December 1861 letter describing the Battle of Rowletts Station KY, Captain John Schwartz ("4th Company", or "Company D") referred to the use of "half-companies" when referring to platoons (zuege), which is right out of European manuals (e.g., the 1847 Prussian Exerzier-Reglement). I should point out, however, that documentary references to companies by number within the 32nd Indiana seem to disappear from 1862 onward with the "alpha" system substituted in their places.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[1stMaine]

Re: Company J?

Comrades,

I would also point out that the "J" was missing in the latin alphabet and pronunciation, as was the case in Hebrew, sound-wise.
Thus, in the illustration of Jesus on the Cross, the inscription nailed above Him simply reads "I.N.R.I." or, more commonly, "INRI". for Iesus Nazorean Rex Iudea. Jesus was pronounced in the Latin as Yesus (Yaysoos), and in Hebrew as Yeshua, Jesus being the Latin variant of Joshua. You can see the same evolution in Spanish, for which Latin was the root language, where the English Jesus is pronounced as "Haysoos".
Just thought this might be interesting vis-a-vis language evolution.
Respects,

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Company J?

The number -- first, third, etc. -- changed with the seniority of the captain, and so did the company's position in the battalion.

And that didn't just apply at the company level either ... When the Army consolidated and reorganized from dozens of regiments down to 6 or 8 after the War of 1812, it was discovered that the Colonel of the First Infantry was junior by date of rank to the Colonels of the Second Infantry and the Third Infantry and vóila! -- The Army's First (oldest) infantry regiment suddenly became the Third Infantry, and so it remains today.