Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

[verg]

Dear Friends,

Any suggestions on where one might obtain correct Ordnance Green Paint?

I need it for a wagon.

Thanks!

John Novicki

[Ambrose Bierce]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Take a picture of the color or obtain a "swatch" (piece of wood with the paint on it, original box, etc.) and then go to the paint store and have them make you up a few gallons custom matched to your particular needs.

Hope this helps.

Ivan F. Ingraham

[Rear Guard]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

If you have a museum near you that has on display something from that time period that is painted Ordinance Green, you could try taking a fistful of color swatch samples from your local Sherwin Williams dealer or whatever and try to come close as possible. Color is tricky--good luck!!

Jeff Lawson

[CavLt]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

John,

I have been told that pittsburgh paint has color called dock piling #7631 that is a good representation.
Personally, I can not vouch for it, and do not recall who gave me this information. But, it might be worth picking up a color chip to compare to an original piece.

Jay Johnson

[James Brenner]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Contact The Artilleryman magazine. Several years ago, somewhere around the mid-1980's, they published not only a color sample, but the information needed to get it mixed. I regret that I don't have the issue handy, but it's in storage. By the way, the people who publish The Artilleryman also publish Civil War News.

[Andrew Fraize]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Be careful on matching modern paint chips to items that have been in a museum for well over 100 years. Paint darkens or fades with age depending on the conditions it was exposed to or stored in.

I have read that the Civil War era ORD Paint was very similar to today's "Army Drab" or O.D. Green. It was described as very dark green, almost black.

The "Official" color per the U.S. ORDNANCE MANUAL OF 1862 was called "OLIVE."
It was made by mixing 68 parts of yellow ocher with 1.1 parts of lampblack.
All Cannon carriages, vehicles, musket boxes & ammunition boxes were to be painted this color.

Hope this helps.
S!

[VMI88]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

You might try contacting the National Park Service. They've researched the correct colors for painting artillery carriages, and I'm sure somewhere they have specifications for mixing the paint.

[ephraim_zook]

Dock Piling 7631

You may have gotten this information from me originally. Unfortunately, Dock Piling is no longer offered by Pittsburg Paints. The local Pittsburg paint store still had a copy of an old color chart that they hadn't thrown out and were able to make some for me. They even kept it on file for me in the event that I want more. But they wouldn't give me the formula even though I tried to convince them that other folks around the country have need for it. One of these days, before I use it all, I'll go to my regular paint place and have them match the color. Fooie on Pittsburg Paints.

Dock Piling does appear to be an awfully good match, but as was suggested elsewhere, paint fades, paint weathers, and if it was made up locally I'm sure the color varied from place to place to begin with.

Ron Myzie

[BarryDusel]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

The problem with getting the "correct shade" is lead content. This is true in reproducing many of the paint colors of the 19th century and earlier. In the past I had occassion to make an attempt to get it right. We had the formulas, swatches, etc., provided by NPS and other sources. After making quite a few attempts we found a small family run shop that had been around for just about ever . Initially we could get close, but never right on. Eventually the "Patriarch" of the Clan mixed a couple of gallon using some"older" product that he had in storage . Unfortunately, we have since exhausted the supply and the patriarch has passed on. So there is no more. Due to current law and the fear of legal ramifications the current proprietors , same family different generation, will not mix anymore .

[rogue]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Hello,
Try the Paulson Brothers Ordnance Corporation in Wisconsin at pbo@cltcomm.net. They build artillery carriages, both wood and metal, for shooters and the NPS. They will be at the Grayling, MI, cannon shoot this weekend, but should be back early this next week. If they do not have it to sell they can tell you where to get the correct paint needed.
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois

[Hank Trent]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

The "Official" color per the U.S. ORDNANCE MANUAL OF 1862 was called "OLIVE."
It was made by mixing 68 parts of yellow ocher with 1.1 parts of lampblack.

Many of the replies seem to assume the goal is to match the period color with a modern ready-mix paint formulation, but isn't the best answer found in the above post? Here's the recipe in more detail from the 1850 U.S. Ordnance Manual:

Olive Paste
Yellow ochre, pulverized....... 68
Lampblack..........................1.1
Boiled oil............................ 37
Spirits turpentine.................0.4

Make a thick paste with the ochre and oil, in a paint pot, and with the lampblack and oil in another; grind them together in small portions, and keep the mixture in a tin vessel.

Liquid Olive Color.
Olive paste........................... 61.5
Boiled oil................................29.5
Spirits turpentine......................5.5
Dryings...................................3.5
Japan varnish...........................2.
Stirred together in a paint pot.

The ochre and lampblack could either be purchased powdered and made into the paste, or are already sold individually as a paste for artists, ready to combine. Boiled linseed oil and turpentine are available. Wouldn't "dryings" be Japan dryer? Does anyone know if Japan varnish was the resin alone, or already dissolved in oil? I'm guessing it was already dissolved, since the instructions say to stir all the ingredients together. The trick would be to get the ingredients at wholesale quantities at a reasonable price, but it doesn't look impossible.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[verg]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Dear Hank,

Thanks for this info.! Does it mention whether the proportions are by weight or volume?

After a quick search on the net (what did we ever do before the net?), it appears the powders are available at reasonable cost - 10 pounds of Yellow Ochre for $38.00 for example. Aside from the time involved, it appears to be a relatively economical way to go. For the same price (perhaps even less) of commerical modern paint, we would have a material and tint that would be absolutely correct.

If I can hand sew my clothes, I guess I can mix the paint for my wagon . . .

Still, if anyone else is already making correct paint, I would appreciate hearing about it - no sense reinventing the wheel.

Thanks again to everyone for their feedback.


Yours,

John Novicki

Many of the replies seem to assume the goal is to match the period color with a modern ready-mix paint formulation, but isn't the best answer found in the above post? Here's the recipe in more detail from the 1850 U.S. Ordnance Manual:



The ochre and lampblack could either be purchased powdered and made into the paste, or are already sold individually as a paste for artists, ready to combine. Boiled linseed oil and turpentine are available. Wouldn't "dryings" be Japan dryer? Does anyone know if Japan varnish was the resin alone, or already dissolved in oil? I'm guessing it was already dissolved, since the instructions say to stir all the ingredients together. The trick would be to get the ingredients at wholesale quantities at a reasonable price, but it doesn't look impossible.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[1stMaine]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Comrade Novicki,

The ratios given are by weight. If you would like the instructions given with the recipe, please email me or pm me and I will endeavour to transcribe them for you from the OM.
Respects,

[Marc]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

Contact Mark Pflum of Durell's Battery. Mark I believe has a good correct source or formula with today's paint for the correct color.

Mark's e-mail is ringgold_redleg@mindspring.com

[Michael McComas]

Re: Sources for correct Ordnance Green Paint?

I saved this off the board the last time this topic came up:

You can get it from Aervoe Paints, AervoeIndustries Incorporated 1198 Mark Circle, Garderville,Nevada 89410 (www.aervoe.com) Olive Drab their part number 997A. Or you can go to a paint store and have them mix it to Federal Standard "FED-STD-595" paint color 24087.