Cleaner bullets

[billmatt04]

Hello all,
I have a question concerning the cleaning bullets that were issued with ammunition (minnie ball shaped with the lead disk that expanded when fired). After using the "search" option and not finding anything I thought I would put the question to you. I have one of these rounds myself and was wondering with what frequency they were issued to the troops in the Federal Army. Was there one in every package of ten rounds? Have any of you run across documentation concerning how often they were issued/used by the troops? Possibly during battle as well? After only a few shots the muskets would get filthy with the residue from the burnt powder so it seems logical to me that a soldier would load a cleaner round during a fight and fire it at the enemy, thereby killing two birds with one stone (no pun intended). Any help on this would be appreciative.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Cleaner bullets

The washer was made of Zinc. When fired the base of the bullet would flatten out the washer making the diameter slightly larger than the bullet. The washer was supposed to scrape the fouling from the barrel.

The cleaner bullets have been dug by the pack and individually. It seems that during the war the method of supplying them changed but I havn't got my sources handy so I will simply say that at times they were included (2) in packs of standard minies and later they were issued by the package (10 bullets and 12 caps). I believe this has been discussed before but it may have been lost in the first forum meltdown.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Hallo Kamerad!

In brief, the Williams Patent bullet was intended as an "improvement" moreso than a "clean out round," however that was its major improvement... ;-) It was not a hollow based "Minie type bullet, but rather a solid bullet with a pin or shaft holding a convex zinc disk. Upon firing the disc flattened and expanded into the rifling, spinning the ball and "scraping" the rifling.

Three million of the Type II bullets were ordered in December 1861 after testing the Type I. ("Light .58 calibre bullets," the Type III, after April 8, 1863, as a response to complaints that the Type II kicked too much and that soldiers were discarding rather than shooting them..)
It is generally held that the initial use of Williams bullets was at the rate of one in ten (one per cartridge bundle).
The first official reference to packng them was on November 5, 1862 calling for two to be packed in each bundle. However, three became the "standard" until August 5, 1864 (Circular No. 41 Series of 1864) increased the number to six.
Almost immediately, Circular No. 47 of September 19, 1864 reversed that- calling for no more Williams to be made (bullet stocks held for emergency use only) and the existing stock of finished cartridges used up at the rate of three per bundle.
So when the supply of finished cartridges with Williams Patent bullets was gone, bundles had none (the different arsenals running out sooner than others..).

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[David Lanier]

Re: Cleaner bullets

I have a type II, but the zinc disc is gone except for tiny flecks. The "piston" is jammed in and immoveable now. Has anyone actually seen one with the disc intact? I was wondering how thick it was.

[billmatt04]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Thanks gents. I appreciate the info very much. I must admit that I didn't know the bullet was intended as an "improvement" over existing models. I also didn't know that the disk was made of zinc (although it makes more sense than a maleable one made of lead). I'm going to have to examine mine a little closer. Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th illinois Vol. Inf.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Hallo Kameraden!

While Williams mentions the thickness in his patent for artillery projectiles, he does not mention it in his patent's write-up for the musket bullet.

I would have to dig up my misplaced TYpe II and III bullets and put a gauge or caliphers to the disks.

I have a Williams Type III cartridge brought home by Edward Blakeley, a teamster from the 62nd OVI, in his cap box (after losing his arm at Resaca- I cannot figure out "why?").
Our family had maintained it was an "explosive bullet."

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Jimmayo]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Here are three dropped cleaner bullets. When looking at the thickness of the washer remember it was cupped and would flatten out when the bullet was fired. The washer itself is very thin.

[65thgainf]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Myself and other relic hunting buddies have dug many of these bullets. The majority being called "drops" they are in perfect unfired condition. In the relic hunting group it is considered that the vast majority were not fired for various reasons...they just dumped them out, instead of firing them.

My favorite is the .69 Gardner insert !

Jerry Holmes

[weed]

Re: Cleaner bullets

By 1864, 3 Williams "cleanner rounds" were included in a pack of 10 cartridges. I have an original unopened package of cartridges (labeled: St. Louis Arsenal, 1864) in my collection, so I had it X-rayed to look (I was not stupid enough to open an "unopened" original package). You could tell by the X-Rays that it had the three Williams cartridges in the pack of 10 cartridges.

Williams rounds came in either a dark red or a dark blue paper , so that you could tell them apart from the "regular" rounds in a pack.

John M. Wedeward
33d Wisconsin
"The Raccoon Regiment"
www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Hallo Kameraden!

"Williams rounds came in either a dark red or a dark blue paper , so that you could tell them apart from the "regular" rounds in a pack."

Just to add, that surviving Williams Type I, II, III cartridges are also found with "ordinary" or buff paper wrappers.

I have wondered on this as it being just an "expedient," meaning the arsenals happened to be out of blue (or red) papers for that production batch- and/or/maybe they were already trying to compensate for the reported accounts of men discarding them unfired due to the claims of excessive "kick." (I have not ventured to fire an original Type II/III (and/or smaller Type III said to counter it) to confirm or deny it. In theory, the "kick" thing should be true, in most cases, as the Type I/II generally weighed more than the nominal 505-510 grain "Minie" which would increase recoil. However, the difference between say a 510 grain ball and a say a loose average 560 wold be noticeable but not "unpleasant." A sampling of Type I/II's are known to weigh in a range from a low of 514 (more or less a Minie's weight) up to 661 grains.)

The Type III cartridge that Edward Blakeley brought home from Georgia late in 1864 has "ordinary" paper.
It had fallen apart over the years rattling around the inside of his cap box to the extent it was a bullet, loose powder, the powder tube, the wrapper, and the string.
In my youthful ignorance, I "restored" or "reassembled" the cartridge with an original "Minie" for the bullet. As Dr. Phil says, "What could you have been thinking?" :-( (I will have to take it apart (untie the string) some day and swap the Minnie out... ;-) )

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Jimmayo]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Reading through the above posts I find no documentation of the issue of cleaner bullets by the pack. I have dug complete packs of 10 cleaner bullets with 12 caps around Petersburg. One was in clay and had some of the red paper with string still attached. I am trying to find those in my mess but no luck yet. Anyhow it seems that they were issued in packs of 10 at some point in late war.

Found them. I only saved the best two and the caps.

[Bummer]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Believe it or not, back in 1974 at the N-SSA national match I fired ammunition made up in correct packs that did have original cleaner rounds (type III) and I did not notice any different kick from the others. All the cartridges being loaded with 65 grains of powder (the cleaners being wrapped in blue). I now wish I had tried a type II or two for comparison.

Spence Waldron~


***This was done in order to win the Miller Award for the most authentic reenactor. A friend and I had spent long hours replicating complete packs down to the last detail. I went into the 'inspection' in as complete detail as I could; rations, ammo, etc. and sure enough the judges opened a cartridge package (at that time no one had ever seen reproduction packaged ammunition)--they even opened one of those 'blue cartriges' too. The rules were you had to shoot the ammunition that you entered the judging in...and that is how I came to be shooting cleaned up original Williams type III cleaner rounds.***

[smithjub]

Re: Cleaner bullets

Believe it or not, back in 1974 at the N-SSA national match I fired ammunition made up in correct packs that did have original cleaner rounds (type III) and I did not notice any different kick from the others. All the cartridges being loaded with 65 grains of powder (the cleaners being wrapped in blue). I now wish I had tried a type II or two for comparison.

Does anyone know of a source for repro Williams cleaners for live firing?