You will not be shot!

[YankRI]

Re: You will not be shot!

Original Post by SCTiger
If someone is being a jerk on the c/p/h side just ignore them... Although no one is 100% authentic, listen to some of these "jerks" and hear what they have to say, they will eventually leave you alone.

Mr. Deese's advice is well-taken. I appreciate the guidance that everyone has provided. I look forward to my first season of EBUFU events!

Happy New Year to everyone!

Michael Jolin

[billwatson]

Re: You will not be shot!

I don't know if numbers are shrinking overall or not, but if they are it may be self-destructive to blame it on anything we are doing or not doing as reenactors generally, on any point of the spectrum. There's a lot going on in the real world: Anyone connected with the active military or involved in any kind of reserve or post-military career way has other things on their mind -- we know we have a bunch of reenactors overseas right now and that's just the most visible part. Additionally, we have an economy that sucks, millions more unemployed than we had three years ago and millions more underemployed -- working more than one job, sometimes, to keep up the mortgage payments on properties bought in better times.
Those things and others I haven't thought of don't just cut into available time and resources for reenacting, they cut into the very desire to take it on. People are filled up with other things right now. Those with a long-term interest in reenacting maintain it; those with an above-average interest grow within the hobby; those who haven't done it don't get involved. So we have, perhaps, slightly shrinking numbers of mainstreamers, modestly growing numbers of campaigners.The influx of totally new folks doesn't quite equal, overall, the number who are dropping out as they get older, as other pursuits take priority, or for ill health.
I'm thinking anecdotally of the few brand-new fellows I've seen in the last two years and in every case, they swiftly came over to the campaign side -- above-average interest in doing it right. I'm thinking anecdotally of some of the mainstream units I know and they seem to have the same fellows, nobody new. That tends to support the idea that the only folks we're getting now are those with an above-average interest in all things Civil War, and they tend to gravitate rapidly to the campaign side of things.
Same thing is going on among existing "mainstreamers." Those with high interest are trying out campaign events, those who aren't tend to stick with their old unit. So the campaign side grows, not necessarily at the complete expense of mainstreamers, but at least partially -- a lot of folks attend both kinds of events, but the reality is that if you are at a campaign event, you aren't at a mainstream event that moment.
Just some thoughts. We tend to beat ourselves up if no one else is handy and we ought to be nicer to ourselves. :-)

Bill Watson
Stroudsburg, Pa.

[CSA Engineer]

Re: You will not be shot!

I am still a "newbie" to the hobby, but I just wanted to add my opinion to this subject. Although I have only been involved with the hobby at the last two events of this year I can relate to some of the issues/feelings discussed here.
I am fortunate enough to be with in my opinion a first rate Co. and group of reenactors. Every man I have encountered has been more than helpful and suppotive with us "new fish". I was given loaner gear for as long as I needed it, and also suppied with a list of the "authenticiy standards" for our units impression.
I have and purcahsed my uniform and other gear in compliance with these standards. I still find my self second guessing some of items I have purchased and accuired so far. I have been told that all the Items I have are "period pattern", and material etc. My conflicts come from all of the information there is out there from "stitch nazis" and "hardcore reenactors" suggesting that even tho it is a period pattern/ material the stitching is all wrong or your button wholes are not accurate.
It leaves me, and perhaps other individuals who are new to the hobby very conflicted as to know what truely is or isnt "historically accurate" or period. I have noticed that a lot of the things I have been told vary from person to person, based on things they have been told or heard someone else say. This type of feeling has led me to do my own research on authenticity subjects, and finding my own documented resources for some of the questions I have.
It is very important to me to be historically accurate and honor those who I am trying to portray, by being as authentic as I possibly can be. This leaves me in the position of trial and error, and not really knowing who to listen to except to say If I cant document it I am not using it. And all the yelling and negative criticism only confuses and conflicts me, and most likely others more. just my $0.02 for what it's worth.

Michael Moffett
Co. E 3rd Regiment
Confederate Engineers

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: You will not be shot!

Paul,

There are many ways to do an inspection at the start of an event. I have seen various methods...some great and many performed quite poorly (based on all the reasons you mentioned in your post). After the LookOut Mtn event, I saw an AAR from a man who was attached to my company who stated that no inspection was conducted. I corrected his facts and informed him that an inspection was performed on him and if he wasn't spoken to privately, then he passed. Inspections can be done when the company or battalion first forms up and it can be done in a way that does not degrade or embarass anyone. The big things that I think organizers should look for are bad patterns, bad hats, wild colors and other major obvious items that stand out. In the few cases I have seen folks needing correction, there was usually loaner gear available to correct the problem privatley. No one knows it all and I agree with your post entirely (that button fly inspection would have offended me!). My point being that inspections can be done in a way to uphold standards, yet not embarass or insult anyone.
Regards,
Jim Butler
The SRR

[paulcalloway]

Re: You will not be shot!

I can't add much here, but if I were to add anything it would include the old addage that you're known by the company you keep.

Alan, please sign all your posts. Using the auto-signature feature in your profile will facilitate this. - mike chapman

Testing post feature.

[adam_oswalt]

Re: You will not be shot!

I read some of the stuff you guys posted, and I couldn't aggree more. But, as someone who has damn near given up on the hobby because of the ***** attitudes, I have to say that there are quite a few people who use this forum who have made me think twice about my interest in accuracy, Paul included. Paul's a nice guy for the most part, but he's said and done a few things that have really made me lose interest in trying to do it the right way.

So here's the first ***** experience, and the one that sticks out in my mind the most:

After becoming interested in authenticity, I attended an event (Mooresville, In) with the mainstream unit I was a member of. My parents set up a pretty innaccurate camp commissary set-up and smack dab in between their camp and the company street was the camp of the Tarwater Mess. I had made a couple of trips through their camp to get to my parents camp. On one trip they had someone set in the path and tell me that I could not walk through their camp anymore. As I walked around the camp there was a group of men who kept their eyes on me and all the while whispered and laughed. They weren't making a very good effort to be subtle. Paul, you were a member of this group.

Okay, so maybe you weren't talking about me. Maybe you were afraid that I was casing your camp to swipe a few things. But there was no explanation other than the laughs and whispers.

I'm only picking on Paul because he posted a post stating that this kind of attitude was wrong. Maybe he's changed. I don't think so, but maybe you do.

Well, that is why I haven't been involved in living history for the past six months. If you don't agree with it, then that's fine. Maybe you'll help me make my decision on whether or not I should continue to be involved in living history.

Adam Oswalt

[MarkTK36thIL]

Re: You will not be shot!

My only question for all is why do units with no real goal to have gain authenticity attract so many menbers? (Illinois speaking)

I began my first event at a little spot with no real way to do campaign other than having no tent, bringing correct food, and losing the hat brass. When I look back and see how I've changed, its unbelievable. I attribute that to a member of our unit that didn't want us (my brother joined with me) to hurt his and the others' progressive image. He politely took us aside and worked through the first stages of acquiring correct gear.

The point?
Our unit did have around 20 authenticity minded individuals in the ranks on any given event practically. In two years, our ranks have suffered while these mainstream units attract new members consistanly. I guess the reasons for new younger members are;

1. cheaper gear- Then they can go chill at the movies with their friends every weekend and get the latest fashion clothes
2. "farbs get girls"- what teenager wouldn't dig a chick in the ranks
3. It's a camping trip for them, not a "real experience"-modern day kids are weak, who wants to get eaten alive by flies and knats?
4. They're lazy- they don't want to look into what's right and what's not
5. They reenact to shoot guns, fight battles, and do a little military duty

While the older gents in the units don't progress either for whatever reasons, they give little inspiration to the new recruits.

How to help: If you can get that youngster away from the unit, talk to him, ask him if they want to be like the real soldiers and tell them you'll help them along. Send them information, and help them as much as possible. Ask them to fall in with you and live the "experience."

In regards somewhat to Paul and others, it must be unbearable to try so hard to get people to do it right and putting so much effort in an easily assessable website. It's frustrating when you see people walk past you with animal parts dangling off hats with so much hat brass, you'd think they're from the Napoleanic Wars instead of some battle hardened Confederate or Federal veteran. Sometimes it's just necessary to laugh at someone unfortunately to vent some. Other times you can't help it when information for uniforms is so readily available and people don't try to help themselves. "Laughter is the best medicine" as Readers' Digest says.

I thank Sean Cowger every day for turning me to the authentic side.

[SCSecesh]

Re: You will not be shot!

Has anyone analyzed what the "shrinkage" is the result of? Any hard data?
Greg Deese

Well it could be the result of your legs being too short and your package hitting the cold water of the Potomac - or - it could be fergettin' the drawers at a winter event - or . . . - well you get the idea! As to "hard" data - if you have shrinkage, "hard" data is usually difficult to come by!!

Couldn't resist!

[SCTiger]

Re: You will not be shot!

I have to watch the double entendre's around you David. I deserved that one.

[ky4union]

Re: You will not be shot!

I don't know how much of a difference this makes, but when I started into the hobby five years ago, I wanted to go out and shoot guns, etc. By the end of my first year, the mainstreamers in my company (who are great guys, but are looking for something different in the hobby) had convinced me that skipping drill in the civilian camp was the thing to do. (As well as any other duties that require the exertion of energy.) I was encouraged to spend as little as possible to start out, which I readily went along with since I had very little money to spend on the hobby to start out.

In the past three years, I came to my senses and realized that I want to do the game right, as did all the younger guys in the company. It started with campaigning at events, since I couldn't afford a tent or much gear, and enjoying it. Having made this decision, I realized that I didn't have the money to upgrade all my gear and go to college. Now I'm in the process of getting new gear as the old stuff wears out, which given the poor quality of some of my gear, hasn't taken long.

The point I'm getting to is, I'm know that I'm not alone in my situation. The key to getting converts to authenticity is to pull them aside and let them know about it from the beginning. Once the initial gear has been bought, it's harder to convert for most people. Showing that hardcores (and even moderately progressives, the point I consider myself at now) are not a bunch of guys who rip off the heads of mainstreams or hide in a bunch in the woods at events, picking fleas off each other and talking about nothing but threadcounts. But as much as I hate to admit it, it's the big events with hundreds of mainstreams that will bring the most people into the hobby. It's the job of authentics to be there as well to show them the way to do it right.