Shame

[Agate]

This honks me off more than anything, together for 140 years until this one gets it, great way to honor, remember, and cherish with respect. Check out the other auctions from this seller. I'm not sure who angers me more, these type of sellers or those who bid and encourage this sort of thing. IMO, the seller could command more if taken to the "right" folks as a grouping.

Disgusted,

John

John Sarver

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=2264178041&rd=1

Sorry about another "ebay" thread, this really burns me though, apologies.

[dahoude]

Re: Shame

John,

I know what you mean. A few years back a similar ebay auction got me frosted too. A woman was auctioning off the original enlistment papers and descriptive lists of each member of company B of the 149th NYSV. The lot containing the entire company B was found up in an attic of the house that was once owned by and lived in by the Captain of company B, 149th NYSV, Nicholas Grumbach. It appears he had saved all the paperwork in a wooden box. When the current owners found this entirely preserved lot, they contracted with someone to liquidate them for them and would pay with a percentage of the proceeds. The seller put them up on ebay "INDIVIDUALLY". This entire collection was now to be piece mealed out all over the world. I begged and pleaded for the seller to do the right thing and sell the lot in tact, or better yet donate it to the Onondaga County Historical Association, and keep them in Syracuse where they belong. No dice however, the seller claimed she was not the owner, just an agent and was doing what she was hired to do. This lot mind you contained the enlistment papers of several Medal of Honor winners in company B as well. The papers started out at $50.00 each, MoH winners started at $200.00. The whole lot kept together by Capt. Grumbach is now lost forever.

"Still Disgusted"
Regards;

Dan Houde
149th NYSV

http://www.149thnewyork.com

[3alabama]

Re: Shame

This shows how people have no regaurd for history and only care about money. I see this type of thing all the time and it's a shame

[Iron Scout]

Re: Shame

Gents,

Sad but true. This sort of thing is happening everyday; just check the note in the preservation folder regarding the governmental records of two of SC's wartime governors. Heck, the most recent update is that the fellow has declared bankruptcy which has thrown the whole lot into the Federal courts but at least they can't be sold outright now.

Several years ago the UCV medal & ribbon collection of Louis Shersefee came on the market here in Camden, SC, my hometown, through a dealer I'm actually friends with. Now old Louis was Hart's Battery's (ANV) guidon bearer and carried Harts' colors in 143 engagements always at the front on the same white horse. Whenever a piece was moved to the rear or into another position during an engagement, like Trevelian's, Shersefee always stayed with the remaining piece, up front & mounted! He joined at 17 as a young German immigrant so, postwar, I can imagine what his collection of reunion ribbons and medals must have meant to him & we're talking cases of them! But we all know the story, the collection was broken open and sold individually at greater profit! I begged and pleaded that the sale be postponed while the Relic Room and other entities could raise the funds to purchase the collection whole but to no avail. Fast money talks. I think this unfortunately shows where priorities are these days in the general culture.

But alas, fight the fight where we can guys. It's sad to see these things happen but take knowledge though that we can make a differece even in small ways. We're the ones left to fight for these men today.

Neill Rose
PLHA
Love & Wienges

[hardtack1864]

Re: Shame

Hate to change the subject, but don't you find it interesting the a private would have a officer type haversack and that housewife is in great shape, though it is really a shame that people do this stuff, even worse if it was a family member/realative. :(

[1stMaine]

Re: Shame

Comrade Sean,

One of the most sad thnigs I saw recently was out In Utah. I was visiting my father and went to an auction with him. It was the estate of a former Army Brigadier General and his wife. The kids didn't want anything at all. They auctioned off their parent's wedding rings, took old photos out of the frames and tossed the images, selling the frames for pennies on the dollar.
What angered me most, however, was they even sold off their father's medals and ribbons, and the flag that draped his casket at his funeral. The local American Legion post asked the kids to donate the ribbons and flag so they could be placed in a frame and preserved, but they were told to get in line and bid like evryone else if they wanted those things. I hope there is a special place in hell for folks like that who could care less about their own history, let alone someone else's.
respects,

[hardtack1864]

Re: Shame

Since people are willing to dig on NPS land just to sell the items or hoard them then this thing on ebay is just more of the same old greed crap.

[26thKentucky]

Re: Shame

It really is awful! I'm short on words. :(

Chris Smith

[Rob Walker]

Re: Shame

It is a shame this kind of thing happens way to much. There is a seller on ebay selling a GAR grave marker ( item # 2265193035). I contacted the guy to let him know. Hopfully he takes it off.

[KarinTimour]

Re: Shame

Someone who knows more about ebay than I do should contact them directly and ask them to forbid the sale. I used to be on the AOL cemetaries list (whole other story). When someone several years ago tried to sell a GAR marker, members there contacted ebay and told them that this was a grave marker and they stopped the auction.

I know you guys know how to get around ebay (which currently daunts me, but I'm challenged by many things related to computers). Go alert them to the sale and ask them to stop it. Point out that it has been stopped there in the past. There was recently a GAR marker on PBS Antiques Roadshow and they did the whole "so what do you think this is worth" bit, and then said "this is a grave marker and there is no monetary value on it, though it has great sentimental value. If you got it from a graveyard, you need to take it back, and if you bought it somewhere else, go find a veterans grave the put this on it" And then the little gold money chest icon swished on to the bottom and it said "Grand Army of the Republic Grave maker Value: $0"

Let's take a step to end the auctioning of some veteran's marker. Send ebay a message -- if we all do it, it can have an impact. If someone could send me an email walking me through how to send them an alert, I'd do it. Get the SUV and SCV to send in notes -- I know many of you are members.

It only takes a minute, but it might give someone a check to this kind of stuff.

Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Camp Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Agate]

Re: Shame

Hi Karin,

Have been a part-time "picker" for a number of years. Have encountered a number of GAR and UCV markers, but not a lot of VFW markers. I believe this to be because folks realize what the VFW marker is. We cannot stop people, nor should we in one sense really, from selling off their property, or their right to do so. We can make an attempt to educate sellers, however.

I agree, we should let folks know, believe however too, that we should do this with good taste and politeness. Just to inform folks.

The breaking up of groupings-Ugh.

A personal demon to wrestle with as I've been responsible for bringing groupings into the market, and I know some of them were broken up. Could cry now concerning a couple of large WWII paratrooper groupings.

I guess what really gets me about this auction is that this is such a good grouping. Hard to find central piece, and everything that goes along with it, compliments the piece well. I believe the seller could do better keeping it together. I've tried contacting folks like this in the past, usually ends up with an offensive and reactionary note being sent back.

What I have found to be most effective with everyday brick and mortar antique dealers, is unfortunate, but has worked to a degree in the past. That is, to let them know what the group was worth before they broke it up, after it has already been sold. That gets through to people, they tend to shop it around a little more.

"Here is how much money you probably lost on this group had you have kept it together."

As demand for this material is ever increasing, we are just going to see more and more of this.

My take on militaria dealers, at least some of them.

One time anti-social, "live in parents basement" peddlers, who otherwise wouldn't have ever been successfully employed, have now been transformed into specialty experts in demand for their expertise regarding high quality collectibles.

If I had only known. :cry_smile

Regards,

John
John Sarver

[Ken]

Re: Shame

This honks me off more than anything, together for 140 years until this one gets it, great way to honor, remember, and cherish with respect. Check out the other auctions from this seller. I'm not sure who angers me more, these type of sellers or those who bid and encourage this sort of thing. IMO, the seller could command more if taken to the "right" folks as a grouping.

Disgusted,

John

John Sarver

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13960&item=2264178041&rd=1

Sorry about another "ebay" thread, this really burns me though, apologies.

This type of historical sell off isn't found only amongst the E-bay sellers. There is a very well known artifacts dealer in Gettysburg who was selling an identified Federal officers frock and slouch hat several years back. Really beautiful. When he couldn't move the identified items at the price he wanted (remember inventory cost money) he split them up, selling of the frock as identified and the slouch hat as simply an officers slouch no ID. I was absolutely amazed at first that they would do this, however I came to the realization that it is just a business to them. It's all about money. What a shame.