Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

While I highly applaud and compliment the desire and comittment of "Newcomers" progressively striving to learn, grow, and evolve-

IMHO, these "types" of postings concerning Run of the Mill Vendors, Brand X Sutlers, and Skinner Row Businesses are replacing "Who makes the best Widget?" type posts.

There are reasons there are Approved Vendors, and why they appear on the Approved Vendor List.

And there are other fora where the products and wares of Run of the Mill Vendors, Brand X Sutlers, and Skinner Row Businesses well meet the needs and wants of different segments of the CW Community.

But Kameraden, it ISN'T here.

While I appreciate the desire, spirit, and intent of the questions asked about Non-Approved Vendors, "let's get beyond this."

There are reasons there are Approved Vendors, and why they appear on the Approved Vendor List.

Please use the Approved Vendors List, and the Approved Vendors. (or ask those questions on the boards and fora that utilize their products and services.)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Moderator

[SCSecesh]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Hallo Kameraden!

There are reasons there are Approved Vendors, and why they appear on the Approved Vendor List.

And there are other fora where the products and wares of Run of the Mill Vendors, Brand X Sutlers, and Skinner Row Businesses well meet the needs and wants of different segments of the CW Community.

But Kameraden, it ISN'T here.

While I appreciate the desire, spirit, and intent of the questions asked about Non-Approved Vendors, "let's get beyond this."

There are reasons there are Approved Vendors, and why they appear on the Approved Vendor List.

Please use the Approved Vendors List, and the Approved Vendors. (or ask those questions on the boards and fora that utilize their products and services.)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Moderator

I'll bite! You state "there are reasons that there are approved vendors" and I fully respect the primary reasoning that they are vendors that support this fine board and secondly, that there goods have presumably passed muster. There are certainly vendors of superior quality goods that do not appear on "the list", Butch Meyers, the Wisc. Veterans Museum, etc., etc. - of course that's their perogative. There may also be "Approved Vendors" on the list who sell goods that do not imitate the relics they purport to in any way shape or form as determined by scholarly study.
In conclusion, what's the answer??

[UnionMan]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

If you don't mind us asking, exactly what does a vendor have to do in order to become "approved?" I'm sure we are all curious to now exactly what the process is.

[hardtack1864]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Don't forget Richmond Depot, Ethan rodgers, Haversack depot, Charlie Childs and others. Even though Childs can join anytime, there are going to be people that think because he is not on the list, he is not good enough or they will never hear about him. Just my two cents.

[Amtmann]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Mr. Chinnis,
I've always wondered the same thing.

[James Masson]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Don't forget Richmond Depot, Ethan rodgers, Haversack depot, Charlie Childs and others. Even though Childs can join anytime, there are going to be people that think because he is not on the list, he is not good enough or they will never hear about him. Just my two cents.

The point of Curt's post is that those vendors who are not "Approved" don't support this website; therefore, they should not have the privilege of having their goods advertised on this website. I think that people will hear about vendors like County Cloth and the Haversack Depot even if they are not advertised on this website. Most authentic units have an "Approved Vendor List" and those vendors that are not listed are sure to make it on to some of those. So, I wouldn't worry about the vendors that are not "Approved"; instead, spend your money and support those people that keep this website running.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

There are certainly quality vendors such as Childs, Meyers and others who would be slam-dunks to add to that list. I actually had a conversation with Butch Meyers about that very thing a year ago or so and he just didn't feel he could handle the traffic/business... he wants to literally create works of art, one at a time, and doesn't want a backlog. I respect the guy for that and if he ever changes his mind, or Childs or any of those you've mentioned, all they have to do is contact us.

Once a person indicates that they would like to become an approved vendor we put them through a little process where we review their goods, ideally in the field but sometimes through photographs and descriptions. The Moderators of this website and the other Approved Vendors all have a say in it.

If it's a vendor that isn't known to us, we ask for customer references. If it's a vendor who just started his business, we ask that he build his business awhile before joining the program.

It's essentially put to a vote, with those against stating why they don't approve. Once a vendor has been approved, we notify them and there is a subscription fee that they have to pay, which entitles them to banner advertising, bully buy advertising and increased access here on the AC site.

We're in no hurry to add new vendors because we feel we have a good representative group. Nor are we avoiding vendors - if a person qualifies, they qualify, there's no wait list.

As far as whether to buy from vendors who are not AC Approved. Of course you can. But I hope you understand that we've gone out of our way to provide you with a comprehensive list, they are financially supporting your hobby and this website and they make some great products. If you go to Chrysler and ask for a new Ford, they might say... Ford makes a good automobile but we'd like to sell you a Chrysler. Childs, Tart, Meyers, Haversack Depot, FHW ... all make great stuff.

With regard to AC Approved Vendors who sell "mainstream" products - the key is to inform our membership what they sell that is quality. And we're actively working to do that. A database is being assembled right now that should contain all that information.

If Chris Daley wants to sell pop-guns to kids at an event, I'm not going to take him off the list for it.

[JimKindred]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

There are some excellent folks who provide great products that for one reason or another have choosen not to participate in the approved vendors list. No one is keeping them from it but until they ask to be one the AC forum moderators aren't going to force them to be one.

Some may have all the business they can handle without what would be added through this forum. Some just may not appreciate the benefits of the internet. Although sometimes those benefits turn out to be something else. :wink_smil

Nobody I have seen is picking favorites. It is up to the individual vendor to participate on the list provided their service and goods meet the standard.

[SCSecesh]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Mr. Chinnis,
I've always wondered the same thing.

I'm not really trying to stir the pot here from my comments, but here is why I made them as I relayed to Chris Daley earlier.
There are many folks out there that are on the journey to "hardcore" that use the AC Board as the proverbial "bible" for authentic enacting. Much of the info here is invaluable to "newbies", but even they should question the reliability of what they read/see here. Of the goods I've seen from the folks on "the List", they are of good quality (with an exception or two) in comparison to originals, BUT (and that's a BIG "but") there are other maker's out there that do equal and sometimes better quality. Curt's post seemed to imply that ONLY thse on the list have been "blessed by Rome" as authentic and these newbies just don't know to ask.
Chris had an excellent point in regards to cloth - where is Charlie Childs, Ben Tart and FHW. Charlie Childs patterns are seen as the gold standard by most and he is noticeably absent. ************ makes some awesome goods, (maybe he's there by proxy through Skillet Licker). The list goes on . . .
Certainly supporting those vendors who support this board is a great direction, but sometimes there are others worth a look.
As long as the list does not encompass all quality goods makers the questions will come!
Maybe we should have a "Don't Ask List"!?!?!

[JimKindred]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Paul,

Didn't mean to try to steal any of your thunder, we must have been posting at the same time.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Vendors

Hallo Kameraden!

I was not fishing for bites...

"There are certainly vendors of superior quality goods that do not appear on "the list", Butch Meyers, the Wisc. Veterans Museum, etc., etc. - of course that's their perogative."

Yes, there are, and it is.

"There may also be "Approved Vendors" on the list who sell goods that do not imitate the relics they purport to in any way shape or form as determined by scholarly study"

There are and might be. But is our collective task to be Educated Consumers.

Kameraden...

"Curt's post seemed to imply that ONLY thse on the list have been "blessed by Rome" as authentic and these newbies just don't know to ask.
Chris had an excellent point in regards to cloth -"

Kameraden...

I see by the individual post counts on the replies here that it is likely that some have read my postings before. In that, I neither seem, nor imply. I state, to the best of my perception, judgement, and experience. I ask no one to substitute either of mine for their own at any time.

"The point of Curt's post is that those vendors who are not "Approved" don't support this website; therefore, they should not have the privilege of having their goods advertised on this website."

I can well see that the discussion has drifted away from "Run of the Mill Vendors, Brand X Sutlers, and Skinner Row Businesses" where it was directed, and into the area of quality makers and vendors who happen not to be on the Approved Vendor List for their own reasons and/or through their own decisions.

In all fairness to "vendors and makers of quality" who do not appear on the List, it should be said that I am not suggesting, implying, or commanding lads NOT to buy from them at all. And do not wish it so.
Indeed, the near exclusive maker of all MY clothing is not on the List. Neither are the other two. Neither is the near exclusive maker of all my accoutrements. Neither are the other two.

Unknown to most, if not all, are the lengthy discussions and debates among the Moderators on this very topic. And, unknown to most if not all, I personally do not agree with the AC Forum mods having to be anything close to being in the position of having to be "experts" in the analysis and approval of every item made by EVERY and ANY vendor. It is task and labor beyond Hercules, usually reeking wrose than the Augean Stables, in its complexity and tediousness in just scratching the surface..

Not to presume to speak for vendors, IMHO, the "quality vendors" do well because they are what they are- and the so-called "Blessing from Rome" is no "big deal." And enough "quality vendors" seem to think so and have made, or are making, the personal choice and business decision not to appear on the List when they could and should be.

This is, and was, an issue with "Run of the Mill Vendors, Brand X Sutlers, and Skinner Row Businesses."

75% of the ability to solve a problem lies in defining the problem in the first place.

A good discussion here!

Thanks to all for responding and furthering the discussion!

Yes, there is method to my madness. (really) ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Eurystheus Mess

[paulcalloway]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Good questions. Good discussion.

Another reason for the Approved Vendors program is that when some of you have a problem with a vendor, I can play intercessor and help you try to work things out. I couldn't count how many times I've gone to bat for one of our forum members to get an answer about an order. Not that we have a bad list of vendors, but it has come up and usually it's taken care of quickly and quietly.

If you do have a problem with a vendor, you need to tell us, especially if you feel a vendor shouldn't be on the list. As Curt has explained, it's impossible to know everything about every product and every vendor - we do our best and we make mistakes.

I'll bring up the discussion with the vendors - perhaps there's a way we could provide contact information for some of the known sources of quality who have chosen not to participate.

But I ask you - what is to prevent some of these vendors from getting on here? Absolutely nothing. Ask them!

[Gallinipper]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

I was just thinking Mr. Chinnis might have hit on a pretty good idea there. What about including a "Don't Ask" List, if such a thing can be done tactfully?

Rich Croxton

[CJDaley]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

If Chris Daley wants to sell pop-guns to kids at an event, I'm not going to take him off the list for it.

WWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[hardtack1864]

Re: Questions About Non-Approved Venndors

Thank you Heinrich and Paul for answering the questions we all had and taking the time to do so. Also, Chris, I think I'll buy on of your "authentic" Pop guns at Cedar creek or at your shop in Oct. and what type of research have you put into them too! :p