Civil War Guns

[clkgt]

I have a gun (that I have been told) was converted from mussel loader to a chambered shell. These were converted by the North right at the close of the Civil war and were only used by the south whenever they could capture one. It has "P. Drissen & Cie" on it. The "P.Drissen & Cie" is curved with another name below it that is hard to read - 5 letter or so, something like "LFECF" I thing Drissen & Cie is Belgium?? There is also a very small anchor on the side. Short gun only about 43" long, barrel is about 25" long. Inside the end of the barrel measures a little larger than 3/4". Does anyone know anything about this kind of gun?
Gene Stephens

[ley74]

Re: Civil War Guns

If you are shooting shellfish, do not aim at me.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Civil War Guns

Hi Gene,

Please if you can post a pic of the weapon. Or send a email pic to me. I belive I can identify it. I deal with Black powder weapons at out museum.

My email at work is mansfieldint_3@crt.state.la.us

All the best,

Don Smith

QUOTE=clkgt]I have a gun (that I have been told) was converted from mussel loader to a chambered shell. These were converted by the North right at the close of the Civil war and were only used by the south whenever they could capture one. It has "P. Drissen & Cie" on it. The "P.Drissen & Cie" is curved with another name below it that is hard to read - 5 letter or so, something like "LFECF" I thing Drissen & Cie is Belgium?? There is also a very small anchor on the side. Short gun only about 43" long, barrel is about 25" long. Inside the end of the barrel measures a little larger than 3/4". Does anyone know anything about this kind of gun?
Gene Stephens[/QUOTE]

[ACo.]

Re: Civil War Guns

As Eureka Independent implies, a picture is worth a thousand words. I can say the the "LFECF" is most likely "LIEGE" telling us that the gun is of Belgian origin, either as new made or modified to breachloader after the ACW. Liege was and is a major arms making center in Belgium. The maker's name ("P.Drissen & Cie") also points to Belgian (or possible French) manufacture. It may have seen use in the American Civil War as a muzzleloader but it is extremely doubtful that it was used here as a breachloader.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Civil War Guns

Does it look anything like this?

http://militaryrifles.com/Belgium/Terssen.htm

or this?

http://militaryrifles.com/Belgium/MoreTerssen.htm

[clkgt]

Re: Civil War Guns

The breech or whatever it is called swings side to side. I tried to attach pics. Hope this is correct.

[clkgt]

Re: Civil War Guns

[QUOTE=Eureka Independent]Hi Gene,

Please if you can post a pic of the weapon. Or send a email pic to me. I belive I can identify it. I deal with Black powder weapons at out museum.

My email at work is mansfieldint_3@crt.state.la.us

All the best,

Don Smith

Tried to send pictures got this -
Your message
To: mansfieldint_3@crt.state.la.us
Subject: Pictures of the Gun - Civil War??
Sent: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:19:38 -0500
did not reach the following recipient(s):

Gene Stephens

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Civil War Guns

The breech or whatever it is called swings side to side. I tried to attach pics. Hope this is correct.

Looks similar to;

http://militaryrifles.com/France/Tabatier.htm

and

http://militaryrifles.com/France/Carabine.htm

[ACo.]

Re: Civil War Guns

That's it, a Tabatiere. The link will give all of the info you will ever need on these. Definately post-CW in this form but they are fun to shoot. They were surplused by the French government in the 1870's, shortly after the Franco-Prussian War and yours has been converted to a shotgun, either in this country by Bannerman's or in Belgium. Collectors call them "Zulu Shotguns" and they usually sell from $75 to $150 if in good condition. An unmodified Tabatiere in full military configuration (rifled barrel with sights, barrel bands and uncut stock) will run around $500 - $650.

[Michael McComas]

Re: Civil War Guns

That's it, a Tabatiere. The link will give all of the info you will ever need on these. Definately post-CW in this form but they are fun to shoot.

You're a braver man than I. I don't think I've ever actually seen a Tabbie that was in any condition to fire. Usually they're in near-relic condition and being flogged off as a "rare Confederate experimental breechloader". :baring_te I keep hoping to find one in good shape, though.

If you have time, PM me. I'd like to hear about your loading and such.

[clkgt]

Re: Civil War Guns

Thanks for all the replies and help. I had hoped this gun was a Civil war gun. The breech just swings open and close. There is a spring on it but does not do any thing - I think. Is the breech supposed to lock down before firing? Otherwise it looks like you would just open the lock, insert cartridge, swing lock back and fire. Sounds a bit dangerous. Is there any way to get a cartridge for this gun?
Gene Stephens

[Michael McComas]

Re: Civil War Guns

Gene,

There is a reason that it's called a "suicide breech". The only thing holding the breech block closed is the force of the mainspring and the geometry of the block. This kind of conversion was patented by an American, Jacob Snider, and used extensively by the British government to convert Enfield rifles. The Mk II Snider used a small spring-loaded pin to keep the breech closed, but it was not strong enough to keep the block from flying open if the cartridge brass failed. On the Mk III version of the Snider-Enfield, they added a thumb latch and very stout spring-loaded locking bolt. The French "borrowed" the idea from the British around 1867-68, before the latch was added.

Your gun is probably a 12-gauge shotgun, but DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER SHOOTING MODERN AMMUNITION. If you do, please arrange in advance for a closed-casket funeral. No kidding. Black powder only in these antiques. If you're considering shooting it, I strongly recommend you check in on the Snider-Enfield forum, where you can get sound advice on black powder reloading:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fbritishmilitariaforumsfrm2