Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

[cwbelle]

I did a search and didn't find anything specific to the following question...

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a good source to get live ammunition for an 1860 model spencer rifle? I'm not able to experiment with making the live cartridges myself at the moment (not sure how easy/safe it would be either).

It's an original gun (excellent condition), and I'm thinking of discouraging the live firing of it...any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks!

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

I did a search and didn't find anything specific to the following question...

I'm wondering if anyone knows of a good source to get live ammunition for an 1860 model spencer rifle? I'm not able to experiment with making the live cartridges myself at the moment (not sure how easy/safe it would be either).

It's an original gun (excellent condition), and I'm thinking of discouraging the live firing of it...any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks!

You wont find any ready made cartridges to feed into your Spencer. As orginally manufactured, these weapons used rimfire ammunition. That type of ammunition is not being made. I know lots of guys who live fire their Spencers after obtaining the parts to convert it to use a centerfire cartridge, but still they all make thier own ammo.
One thing to be mindful of is that the Spencer is very picky about cartridge length.
Dave Myrick

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

Hallo Kameradin?

A somewhat unusual question from the distaff side... ;-)

IMHO, I hold the radical view orignals should be care for, preserved, and appreciated and not live-fired. (But a few rounds for the historical experience is not all that wicked... ;-) ) :-)

As already shared, the M1860 Spencer used a copper, balloon head .56-56 rimfire cartridge that has not been made in near Forever.

Someone was making "centerfire" conversion kits (breech block, magazine follower, etc.) to allow the originals to be adapted to fire reworked .50-70 centerfire brass. .50-70 "brass" are a little too large in diameter for Spencer chambers (original .50-70 specification is .670"), so they need turned down to .650. I guess some of the newer .50-70 cases are being made slightly undersize, due to the popularity of Spencer conversions.

Case length for .56-50 rounds should be between 1.15" and 1.18". The action will usually work/function with shorter cases. However, exceeding the maximum length almost always results in jamming.
Case length for .56-56 rounds vary with the type of bullet. Original style bullets can require "short" cases at .90". Some Rapine bullets will function quite well with cases up to 1.1".

A number of makers, such as Rapine and Lyman make bullet molds suitable for Spencers. Rapine has "Spencer" bullet molds such as 370 grain bullet for .56-56 chamberings and a 375 grain .56-50's. They also have several .50 caliber molds if a different weight is needed.

It is necessary to know the rifling roove depth of exactly which type/model year and maker of the gun. The groove depth or diameter of CW Spencers can be as large as .540" but .535" is common. To insure that the bullets would work in any bore in which they might be used, the "average" bullet diameter of original rounds is nominally .55". Post War Spencer models can measure out at .515", although .518" is not unusual.

RCBS makes .50-70 dies for reloading, their sizer and shell holder work well. All that is needed to load Spencer ammo is an appropriate neck expander plug and seat/crimp die.

Spencers usually shoot best with FF powder, no real surprise as that was what was used. They generally shot better when magnum primers are used.

And the new Italian M1865 Spencer repro's shoot the .44 S & W Russian or the .45 Schofield centerfire rounds, and avoid the .56-56 rimfire thing altogether... ;-)

As do the Larry Romano versions. (I have a .56-50).

Likely more info that you asked for, and not really on target (no pun intended).

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Company "C," 7th Independent Company Ohio Volunteer Sharpshooters

[Michael McComas]

Re: Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

Miss Clark,

I'm of the school that believes a gun in shootable condition "wants to be shot". The idea there is that if you shoot it, you'll clean it, oil it, and take care of it. If it's just hanging over the mantle, it's not getting proper care and attention in most cases. So shoot it if you're prepared to do a thorough and conscientious cleaning before and after shooting it.

The only place you may find .56-56 rimfire ammunition is at a gun show, and ammunition of this sort is highly collectible (i.e. very expensive and very bad karma to shoot it). Converting to centerfire is a reversible process consisting of replacing a few parts. The process costs about $175. S&S Firearms and Buffalo Arms both carry the replacement breech block. You're probably getting the idea that this isn't the sort of thing you'd do just to fire the gun once or twice. :)

Ready-made black powder ammunition is available from www.ten-x.com You have to purchase a minimum of 50 rounds for $150, which is a pretty good deal considering the brass alone is $2.50 each. Again, not cheap, but getting set up to reload for the .56-50 Spencer is an expensive project if you don't already make bullets and reload yourself.

[cwbelle]

Re: Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

Thanks everyone for your replies, they have been very helpful.

Mr. Schmidt,
Thank you so much! That was exactly the type of information I was looking for, and certainly not too detailed :tounge_sm . Thanks for the time you took to reply. I'm getting a much better idea of what this would all involve now. I'll admit I'm somewhat hesitant to do a centerfire conversion to an original at this point.

I'm definitely going to take a very close look at it tomorrow! :)

Thanks again!

[major]

Re: Live cartridges for a model 1860 spencer?

CWBell
If you or your significant other were thinking of reenacting with a Spencer then you might want to consider using one of the Armisport reproductions in 44 Russian. For a detailed explanation on this subject you can go to http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.co...r_article.html and read the article.
You have been given plenty of good information on the AC board but some more information may be obtainable by going to the N-SSA board http://www.n-ssa.org/bb/index.php They regularly shoot original Spencers and can give you very detailed information.
Terry