Total Newbie Question

[ElizabethClark]

Gentlemen, no one in my family undertakes a military impression, but I've had a request come through a non-reenacting discussion list, and I'd like to steer her toward good information... so I bring my ignorance to you all!

Here's the gist:

Woman's neighbor plays in the CW hobby. He's wanting to add pretty bits to his uniform, and has told her he needs:

Yellow wool felt: 3/8" wide for the "stripes on the uniform sleeve" and 1" wide for the stripe down the trouser leg.

He told her he's "found rank insignia ready-made, but it's on patches at does not look authentic enough to suit him. Why bother to do it if he can't make it look as good as it should?"

I commend the attitude, but here's the set of questions:

1: Aren't rank insignia SUPPOSED to be on a mounting of some sort, so they end up being, well... uniform? How were they actually done in the period?

2: I found insignia on a few of the approved vendor sites, and they look darn good... didn't bother looking at "sutler row" type stuff, so maybe he's only seen the dayglo yellow and blue stuff, and doesn't know quality things are available? I've sent her links to several of the approved vendors. Okay, I guess question two was entirely rhetorical.

So--can someone spoonfeed me a concise summary of "how uniform insignia were done in the period" so I can share that with the list-person? Please?

:)

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Dearest Elizabeth,

First let me start by saying that you for all the good work you do around here. It's been too long without paying you due compliments.

And to your question, I have seen examples of both application methods, Union and Confederate, at Civil War shows and in museums over the years. I have not kept track of the percentages of either method on extant examples to state which was more common, just simply both methods were employed. I have applied my own rank using both methods. While using rank sewn to a cloth backing is easier and less time consuming than sewing individual stripes to a sleeve, both can be completed with a good appearance. In either case I recommend tacking the three corners (with pins or one stitch) of a chevron to the sleeve and trying on the coat to see that the placement is correct before sewing it entirely. Look to see that the chevron is not too forward or to the rear of the sleeve, is placed not too high or low, and that the top ends are even and not tipped forward or backward.

For variations of placement, I suggest looking at pictures of original garments. EOG is always a good resource to have on hand. You'll find variances in distance between the stripes, variations of materials, and say for instance in the rank of orderly sergeant, differences in the size of the diamond. Tell your friend that both methods are correct.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Thanks very much for the sewing details, Matt. (And it's a pleasure to be on board, thank you!)

My very limited information would lead me to think that she needs to buy worsted wool tape for the insignia (not felted wool)? I'll pass along the attachment information. She normally does modern sewing, so anything to do with history is a new avenue, and it's going to be a one-time favor.

I was intending to send her toward the Wooded Hamlet product line for worsted tape--would that be an appropriate move, if the owner of the garment prefers tape-applied rather than ready-to-attach insignia?

[Spinster]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Elizabeth--that's now directly to "Needle and Thread" in Gettysburg--the Wooded Hamlet worsted tape line is carried there.

I'm clueless as to the proper width--one of the reasons I'll sew the stuff on, but the soldier has to buy the tape and provide a drawing of the position of the insignia. They seemed to be selling by the yard and by the package when I was there in July.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Liz,

Go with 1/2 inch worsted wool tape of proper branch color. Sorry about neglecting that detail.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Thanks... I'll pass the details along. Fun little smidge of additional information that the seamstress friend found amusing: for a man very concerned with "getting it right", his "uniform" has serged seams. :) This may be a case of lipstick on a pig.

[Lee Ragan]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Matt,
That was a very good answer to the ladies question, and quite correct. I've been a chevron collector for almost 30 years and have studied same for longer than that. Yes, both sides did use "ready made" chevrons sewn to background cloth & both sides used the old "tape", system of applying each stripe individually. (See "Chevrons", by LTC William K.Emerson, US Army Ret.Smithsonian press, circa 1985.)
One thing that always seems to be missed tho by reenactors concerns chevrons worn by the regulars in the US Army during that period up to 1872. Regimental NCO's, (Sgts Major, Regimental QM Sgts. etc) had chevrons made of silk, not worsted as prescribed for company grade NCO's.I would also suspect that regemental NCO's in state units also would have had silk chevrons in the Union Army.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[Calico Boys]

Re: Total Newbie Question

To add to what Lee said, here's a little bit more info:

In the Museum at West Point there's a sack coat ID'd to Sgt. J.F
Wymann, Wymann was in the 1st RI Heavy Artillery and was wounded
during the overland campaign in this very jacket. A hole in the
sleeve of the jacket marks the entrance spot of some schrapnal Wymann
was hit with, after a shell exploded above his regiment. Wymann was
an orderly Sgt in this regiment, and his chevrons on his coat are
made from a 1/2" silk tape trim. Each stripe sewn down by hand with
a simple felling stitch.

Clothing vouchers for Company G. 86th NY during the time frame of
November 1st 1862 through October, 31 1863, show that Sgt. Nathan
Crosby promoted 2/16/63 recieved 1 yards Blue Lace. One yard of
material is not enough to put stripes on the trousers, so I am sure
this is for his NCO chevrons.

Clothing vouchers for Company F. 33rd Mass. for the time frame of November 1863 through October 1864, show that Sgt. James Hill recieved 2 1/4 yards blue lace. I am sure this is for the same purpose, as even that much is not enough for trousers stripes.

Hope this info is of use,
Casey Osgood
The Calico Boys

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Mr Lee, please remember to sign your name to your posts--I suspect that your automatic signature was wiped out in the crash, and needs to be re-applied. :)

Misters Lee and Osgood, thanks for the additional help! I appreciate being able to share good information and sources for something outside my own area of interest.

[mtvernon]

Re: Total Newbie Question

As a related question, can anyone tell me exactly where along the sleeve (top to bottom) the chevrons are supposed to be located? I can use Kentucky Windage to put them 'probably' in the right 'enough' place, but I haven't been able to find regs. on this topic. It could be, as Mr. Woodburn suggested, varied in this regard. I understand that there were variations as to the space between the stripes, but is there one rule that explains how far down the sleeve the chevrons are to be placed?

Thank You,

[tomarch]

Re: Total Newbie Question

I found an interesting entry about chevrons and after using the search function, thought it would go well here.

The book was the Civil War diary of David Chisolm, 116th Pa. Vol. Inf., 2nd Corps, AoP

" Saturday, Jany 14th (1865)

We have special orders for every non-commissioned officer to have chevrons on their arms and stripes on their pants. The Quartermaster hasn't any, we have to take old blouses and make them ourselves. It is laughable to see the boys all at work with their needles. You may depend some of the stiches are long."

" Sunday, Jany 15th

This is a beautiful sabbath morning. We had our usual Co. Inspection. The boys looked real nice in their home made chevrons and stripes (even) if they had to make them out of old blouses. At 3 O'Clock P.M. we all went to church and heard a good sermon. Everything going along as usual to night."

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Maybe I missed it...
Do we know whether this fellow's impression is US or CS? Based on the request for yellow trim, sounds like a cavalry impression. Correct?

Thanks!

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Total Newbie Question

John, I'm not sure--even my elephantine propensity for remembering odd bits of information has failed me two years later. :) It could very well have been cavalry, though I doubt it involved horses.

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Total Newbie Question

I know the placement in the modern US Army for rank insignia on the sleeve is very specific, but have never seen anything written for the ca. 1860's army. I've seen pics of it all over the upper sleeve for both US and CS. If it were me I'd just center it on the upper sleeve. Spacing as Matt suggested would look best I think but have seen the spacing very wide for tape applied directly to the sleeve.

I really think when tape is applied directly to the sleeve you can't do it wrong. Think about it, tape issued in the field. Then applied by the soldier himself, with only a pocket knife to cut and needle & thread to stitch with and done by candle light or daylight. While it may look badly with no space exactly the same, it would still be right. It wouldn't look like a tailor made or applied rank.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Total Newbie Question

Hallo!

The 1861 U.S. Regulations, section 1549 reads:

The rank of the non-commissioned officers will be marked by chevrons upon both sleeves of the uniform coat and overcoat, above the elbow, or silk or worsted binding one-half an inch wide, same color as the edging on the coat,points down,..."

As we know from Period images, that was the "ideal" as the briad or tape was not always that width or material, nor always with that width spacing between the stripes. Plus, "above the elbow" was open to interpretation as to where some lads put the point the chevron at the elbow or somewhere above. and chevrons on greatcoats were often lower on the sleeves so that the cape did not cover them. Etc.
And while we tend to think that individually applied chevrons with no backing piece was a "Confederate" practice, there are also images of Federals haivng applied chevrons as individual stripes as well.

Curt