What ever happened to...

[Emmanuel Dabney]

While granted some reenactors have never researched and never intend to, I am more amazed now than ever at those who ask some pretty rudimentary questions.

I am not trying to ruffle one's feathers and there are problems with some of the information out there but some of this amounts to looking at photographs of original garments (for the issues that have been told to me Echoes of Glory still has images of originals though not minutely detailed).

Indeed what HAS happened to someone to construct lists of approved vendors per unit? Furthermore, why don't members use the approved vendor list at the top of the window? The usual responses are coming up of using the search engine (which I am a BIG proponent of) and I am sure soon we'll get messages of "People are mean and don't tell me what I want." But the question remains, why do people not use it? Granted now we have lost almost 2 years of information and the search engine is just not going to bring up as much data as before the Crash of '06. I don't do military portrayals anymore but seems like people have forgotten or have no guidance as to how to go about things and it's not just on this forum and it's not just in the military world.

Explanations for breakdown? How can the reenacting world improve? I'm curious how much more obvious does "Approved Vendors" and "Search" have to be?

[Charles Heath]

Re: What ever happened to...

Bless you, Em.

[NoahBriggs]

Re: What ever happened to...

First instinct? Laziness.

Second look? A lot of us have already done a lot of research, put together the biblios (online/offline resources), and we share those frequently on here and other fora. To the newer researcher's line of thinking, why dig for all this basic information when it's already up there in the form of the biblios and the discussions and so on?

Once one becomes used to this sort of information gathering, it becomes something of second nature. Then, they encounter someone like a poster here, who "forces" the newer researcher to dig for the information themself. And the newer researcher has a harder time of it because s/he is used to researching the Lazy way.

I find myself having to guide people on our agency's website to look for where to register to sell certain products. To me, it's pretty idiotproof. I even plugged relavent terms into the site's search engine and still found it. And I am a computer moron. Evidentally, it's not as idiotproof as I thought. I get questions on where to go on the site, or I must guide them from one part to the proper part. I can tell who has tried it themselves before calling and who is hoping to be spoonfed. The spoonfeds ask for general website directions. Those who have tried it themselves ask for specific information, right after that soul-searing phrase " . . . I was online and I looked here first . . ." To the spoonfeds I say "try using our search function," but only after I have hung up the phone. (Cannot be rude to the callers in my line of work. For a lot of the callers, English is a second language.)

Loathe as I am to say it, there are people out there who are 1) lazy, or 2) computer illiterate, or worse, 3) both. Since we like to educate, perhaps a Google 101 is in order. Before the Tragic Crash both the Search Function and the Approved Vendors were highlighted in Electric Yellow at the top of the screen. Reinstate that. I'd argue in addition the search function and approved vendors be in larger letters. Or, have the search function scroll down the screen with you as you scroll, like a digital puppy waiting for your commands. It's harder to ignore when it's in yer face.

My two bits.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: What ever happened to...

Thank you Mr Dabney. This exact issue has been a stone in my shoe for a long time.

[col90]

Re: What ever happened to...

Once one becomes used to this sort of information gathering, it becomes something of second nature. Then, they encounter someone like a poster here, who "forces" the newer researcher to dig for the information themself. And the newer researcher has a harder time of it because s/he is used to researching the Lazy way.

I find myself having to guide people on our agency's website to look for where to register to sell certain products. To me, it's pretty idiotproof. I even plugged relavent terms into the site's search engine and still found it. And I am a computer moron. Evidentally, it's not as idiotproof as I thought. I get questions on where to go on the site, or I must guide them from one part to the proper part. I can tell who has tried it themselves before calling and who is hoping to be spoonfed. The spoonfeds ask for general website directions. Those who have tried it themselves ask for specific information, right after that soul-searing phrase " . . . I was online and I looked here first . . ." To the spoonfeds I say "try using our search function," but only after I have hung up the phone. (Cannot be rude to the callers in my line of work. For a lot of the callers, English is a second language.)

Loathe as I am to say it, there are people out there who are 1) lazy, or 2) computer illiterate, or worse, 3) both. Since we like to educate, perhaps a Google 101 is in order. Before the Tragic Crash both the Search Function and the Approved Vendors were highlighted in Electric Yellow at the top of the screen. Reinstate that. I'd argue in addition the search function and approved vendors be in larger letters. Or, have the search function scroll down the screen with you as you scroll, like a digital puppy waiting for your commands. It's harder to ignore when it's in yer face.

My two bits.

I'd have to agree with everything Noah said....one would HOPE that people who want to gain knowledge would have SOME sort of idea about research, but speaking as a librarian who helps people do research every day, I'd have to say that just ain't so....yes, many DO know how, and just are lazy, but others just need to be SHOWN how, and then they go from there....I'm not saying it doesn't irritate the heck out of me, but I keep telling myself that as well...it's those who have been shown and STILL don't want to do it themselves that get to me....

And yes, I love to do "virtual reference" in the privacy of my office where I can yell at the computer and say EXACTLY what I think!!! :wink_smil

Colleen

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: What ever happened to...

Em,

Good post, and questions I've wondered for a very long time.

[Maria]

Re: What ever happened to...

Wanting to do more research is the reason I have not started reenacting, yet.
When I decided to become a reenactor, I wanted to learn more so I wouldn't sound dumb when speaking to other reenactors, that was about 3 or 4 years ago. But they are all so nice at the reenactments I have attended that I am not so intimidated anymore, and I have decided it is time I start doing it. Unfortunately, the season is almost over here, so I will wait till 2007. I can't wait! :D


Maria Huerta

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: What ever happened to...

Emmanuel
This raised an excellent question in my mind, maybe yourself or Mr. O'Beirne or Mr Briggs could help me answer.
Who makes the best sack coat?




:tounge_sm




Most Respectfully
Drew Gruber

[ley74]

Re: What ever happened to...

Emmanuel:

Thank you.

Several things seem to have converged over the past year causing a schism in the reeenacting fora.

First, the CWR Forum was down for quite a long period. As a result, many of the regulars there came to the AC. They did not realize that the search function works on the AC. Maybe they did not really want to know.

Second, the AC went down. In loosing two years of conversation, the returning members have found it difficult to reset and some of the CWR folks continue to look for missionary help with questions.

It used to be statements made on the AC were expected to be supportable. Questions were supposed to exhibit effort on the part of the poster to find an answer.

Contrary to the "mean old hardcores", my experience on this side of the hobby has been spectacular. While prior to reenacting I was fortunate to be involved with two large research projects, this only helped be use reenacting to continue my research and growth.

While a return to heavy-handed moderating on this forum seems unneeded, a set of regulations that are adhered to would be appreciated. Use of PMs could also allow moderators to perform their difficult and sensitive task without public discipline.

I miss the old days. Several months ago I noted that I read the forum for almost a year before I posted the first time. You know what? There is nothing wrong with that.

Keep up the great work. I hope we cross paths sometime.

[Anna Worden Bauersmith]

Re: What ever happened to...

I will start by saying I am not in anyway defending all the simple/silly/redundant/easy/ect. questions out there. I am offering an explanation for some of them.

I spend the majority of my research time focusing on the handful of subjects I have developed an obsession for. Every so often I come across a topic in my research or in a post that I hadn’t previously given much thought to or hadn’t given research time to. This is evident on the ‘dressing for church’ thread on the CWR. I tend to be easily distracted. If I branch off on every ‘huh?’ I would never get anywhere effectively. I need to force myself to look up only the relevant information. The other bits I am unfamiliar with result in questions on forums. In some ways this can be seen as laziness. I see it as time and efficiency.

I do see some benefit in pre-emptive action such as education on research (done well here) and basic information threads. With the large amount of shared information lost in several places over the past year, some of the basic information that used to come up in the search features isn’t there anymore. This could be another topic though.

Anna Worden

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: What ever happened to...

Thanks to those who have responded or IM'd me saying "Thank you." A couple of you (Noah and Anna) who do research have responded to the questions posed too.

However, I want to hear from those folks who ask the questions but aren't answering mine. Or should I look forward to not hearing from you?

[NoahBriggs]

Re: What ever happened to...

Using the same search function, here is a suggestion relevant to 04 and today - what would you add to this site's FAQ?

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2282&highlight=FAQ

We used to have a lengthy FAQ on the AC Forum. I know. I printed the thing off, and it addressed an awful lot ranging from the basics, to "best tarred canvas receipe" to procedures to whatever. If I wer e a newbie this would form the start of my "reenacting bible" and set me on the path for better research.

"The Dark Side [of research] leads to abilities some would consider . . . unnnatural." :wink_smil

Palpatine paraphrased. Could not say it better myself.

[JimKindred]

Re: What ever happened to...

Emmanuel,

You brought up a very good topic and one I question on a regular basis. At one time I posted research material on the AC but I got tired of answering the same questions time after time. Eventually I started only providing a reference - title, paragraph and page number to the individual asking the question. In more times than not my post would either be followed by the poster asking the same question again or giving me grief for not spoon feeding the answer. After a short time of that method I stopped posting research material altogether, I am not going to spoon feed those who are too lazy to make even the slightest effort to find the answer or part of the answer on their own.

I am more than willing to help folks with information but all I ask is that they make some effort other than throwing a question out and expecting someone else to do their work for them. From talking with many who were on this forum in the beginning or near the beginning most share my view on this. The AC was not started with the beginner in mind.

[dusty27]

Re: What ever happened to...

Jim, thanks for the signature quote of the year..............

[JimKindred]

Re: What ever happened to...

Dusty,

You are more than welcome. :wink_smil