What ever happened to...

[Charles Heath]

Re: What ever happened to...

So I started reading threads from the oldest to newest.

Derek,

I do that once in a while, and tend to learn something new every time. One of the greatest features of this forum has been the search engine that actually works as a search engine. Not all fora have this capability, and some of those that do only search one page at a time. The latter is just not worth a toot.

[NC5thCav]

Re: What ever happened to...

From talking with many who were on this forum in the beginning or near the beginning most share my view on this. The AC was not started with the beginner in mind.

Maybe the name should be changed to Advanced Campaigner? Just a thought ;)

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Thoughts...

So I started this thread to see if anyone who is asking these questions would actually answer mine, as I assume they expect us to answer their questions. So far, not too much from them, but we'll still wait and see...

What I am seeing and hearing from forum members are some interesting points. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong and add to the issues/concerns:

1. People do not know how to research. The sad fact of the matter is this is largely true as people are by nature lazy. While all of us possess qualities to push forward if we could just have the National Archives mailed to us versus going to D.C. we would. An actual solution was suggested by Noah Briggs to me, that we set up basically a "Search Engine 101" sticky somewhere (or every forum) to promote the use (and exactly how to use) of not only the Authentic-Campaigner search engine but also Yahoo, Google, etc. This could also include links such as Evaluating Websites from University of Maryland (http://www.lib.umd.edu/guides/evaluate.html).

2. People are coming from a reenacting world that does not promote individual thought/research/critical evaluation of life and material culture in the pre-Civil War and Civil War eras. This may be helped along if we have "Search Engine 101" and if they are here they must at least be wanting to improve.

3. Questions are not posed in a way to shed more research but rather direct answers. This is particularly a problem as Curt noted "Who makes the best...?" and "Where can I buy...?" Liz, as usual, has some excellent tips for new posters. Showing some sign of having attempted to look (or illustrating to us some disadvantage, particularly for college students who are not at home with their personal libraries) would be better than just having your first post be "Tell me everything you know about Manassas because that's my first event! Can't wait for you to tell me your sources of information. Private Joe Blow, 1st Alaskan Huskie Squad of Engineers." Turn those questions around to "Why does Mr. Vendor X have a better great coat and Mr. Vendor Y? What original specifications or garments has he examined to reproduce this garment? How could I see the garment or are images and attached historic notes available with purchase of the pattern/finished good?" Etc.,etc. This is particularly important too when doing a search, you must be specific. The other golden rule is also nice too and was even a topic of dissatisfaction on CWReenactors.com in that people do not say "Thank you." Lots of the responses newbies and old timers get have required anywhere from 10 minutes to several days to compose. To never be heard from again is rather unappreciative to others who have specialties in certain areas or have gone out of the necessary to provide some extensive resources. Caveat: This does NOT mean you need to say "Thank you" after every response or thread because few threads get closed and therefore remain open to later research. But once in a while, do try to remember that as it encourages people. It also doesn't mean that you have to do it in public, private e-mails, Instant Messages, and private messages through our system also have inspired people to keep up the good work even when it may seem like "No one cares."

4. "Search engine squashes discussion." I have heard that I am the "King of the Search Engine" because frequently I make reference to it. The use of it is not supposed to squash all new discussion nor is it to squash discussion of a topic that one may feels like has been beaten over for the 10,000th time. Rather the users note and the moderators can many times notice that we are indeed talking about a topic that is one month old and sometimes even only a few days to a week old and still someone comes along with "Who makes the best haversack?" yet the question was hounded over for the past four days. This is what is mean by using the search engine. Many times you can find a thread about the best haversack vendor without starting a new thread on the same topic with people shouting "Search engine!" Furthermore, even going to an old topic for example "By right of companies, to the rear into column" (thread started 8/29/2004) if someone has new information, I can all but promise you that the new information will not be lost. As suddenly something that is not on the "front page" of the subfolder will be moved there if you add something new to the thread. It helps the moderators too from merging threads on exact same or 99.9% the same topics.

While it would be a larger than life project (ok maybe not but larger than time), it would be nice if there were some way when you set up your account to pick some things you are "in the know about" (this doesn't mean expert). For example, Elizabeth Stewart Clark would be able to pick/type "Children's clothing, Advice and tips on sewing for a family, Preservation Doll projects." That does not mean that's ALL she knows but it would be silly to contact me about children's clothing in mid-19th century America. This of course doesn't mean people would actually read your profile but from time to time I check out the members who are using the forum.

Just some Sunday afternoon thoughts...

[NC5thCav]

Re: What ever happened to...

I think you covered it pretty well.

[Rob Murray]

Re: Thoughts...

Emmanuel, I'll stick my neck out a little bit. Noah Briggs' idea of a search engine 101 would be a great idea. If someone doesn't know how to properly use a search engine it's a lot easier to ask than to stumble through trying to figure it out. I know because I stumble through it. Also, some of us (me), might be just figuring out how to use a computer.
I just got mine within the last year and a half. Ok, call me a dinosaur. Keep up the good work.

Rob Murray
Minnesota First

[Michael McComas]

Re: Thoughts...

Mr. Dabney,

Some excellent suggestions here. Search Engine 101 would ideally be coupled with a sophomore-level class "Using Other Research Sources", and a junior-level course on "Photographic Evaluation 301". The senior thesis class would then be "Evaluating Reproductions vs. Original Artifacts". New people often don't know where to begin, or are overwhelmed despite their best intentions to "do it right". Their first attempts at research end up being akin to swinging a cat in a dark room--when they do hit something, they don't know if it's the right thing, and in the process, everyone comes away with claw marks. Fostering research skills--with patience--is perhaps the most valuable service the AC can provide the community, and in turn, the community gains motivated researchers to continue our desired level of discourse.

How information is generated, stored, retrieved, and disseminated is something I used to deal with in my day job. I think your idea of registering our self-designated areas of expertise is a good thing, especially if this can somehow be combined with a search feature so a user can view a "bullpen" of people willing to personnally field sophomore-level questions in a particular area of interest. This is how many technical support knowledgebases work.

One thing which may address both the new member's desire to learn, the veteran's desire to not answer the same question over and over, is a wiki-style encyclopedia where people can record their research for others to follow, expand upon, and reinforce. A wiki would be easier to search (no multiple threads on "the best recipe for period stamp glue"), and the community editing and discussion features ensures that spurrious information is likely to be excised in a timely fashion. It could serve as a permanent and growing repository for information that is currently ephemeral (who looks beyond Page 2 of the forum?) and disappears every time an ISP hiccoughs. Of course, it would require active participation and support of the AC community to be successful, but it would certainly become an invaluable resource for us all. After all, one cannot be an expert on everything.

Your thoughts on comparing Vendor X to Vendor Y are interesting, but in my experience, people are more defensive of their haversack purchase than of their sister's reputation. Unless you establish objective criteria first and have an impartial board of anonymous evaluators, this activity quickly becomes a blood sport.

Cheers,

Michael

[weed]

Re: What ever happened to...

As a high school librarian/ history teacher, I see the problem with doing research everyday. Younger people are just plain LAZY. They want everything given to them. Maybe the problem starts with the "internet"? By going to my web site, http://www2.inxpress.net/jwedeward you can get detailed information on all types of Federal Uniforms, by going to the 33d Wisconsin web site, http://www.33wis.com you can find research articles on almost everysubject on the Civil War. This is true for numerous web sites. Why spend the time to research and write anything when you can get it for nothing? The Hardcracker Handbook, The Columbia Rifles Compendium.Articles written by Scott Cross, Paul McKee, Ken Smith, Nick Nickols, Fred Goede, Steve Osmond, Geff Waldren, Larry Strayer, Bob Braun, John Dewey, and the list goes on and on................. (sorry for all those I left out) I see the reason EVERYDAY AT WORK. JUST PLAIN LAZYNESS to learn how to do research and less ambition to actually DO IT.!

John M. Wedeward

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: What ever happened to...

So I'm still confused...why aren't people who want new clothes looking at the Approved Vendors link?

I just don't GET IT and I am asking those who do not do this to tell me why?

[flattop32355]

Re: What ever happened to...

So I'm still confused...why aren't people who want new clothes looking at the Approved Vendors link?
I just don't GET IT and I am asking those who do not do this to tell me why?

Just a thought: You're asking people who are not doing what the regulars on this forum say they should be doing to admit that they are doing something "wrong" in public. Not being complete idiots (though some here would disagree), they realize that to answer you is to admit that they are, indeed, not doing things properly. Most folk are rather hesitant to do so, and open themselves up to public ridicule on the fora, here and elsewhere.

Thus,the deathly silence.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

Re: What ever happened to...

Well, probably so. I just don't get how much more obvious the approved vendors can get. They have ads, they have a list, the link has been singled out because people proclaimed "I can't find it." And yet still people don't use it...I guess I just give up on that.

But people should now not pout when less people start saying things "nicely" because they look for answers that are blatantly located at the top of the window.

[ephraim_zook]

Re: What ever happened to...

I think Dr B nailed it. It's akin to the preacher asking the congregants to stand up in church and explain why they sinned.

Ron Myzie

[MomKelly]

Re: What ever happened to...

Okay I'll bite...

as a woman reenactor I sew my own clothing for myself and my daughter. There isn't much out there that is affordable for women if you want a decent impression..

as for my husband and son.. I discovered I can make a pretty darn good frock coat and have little need to buy from approved vendors.

before someone jumps my case.. remember you haven't seen my work but it looks superior to the run of the mill vendors offerings and comes pretty close to the offerings of the approved vendors I have seen. the biggest difference I have noted is mine fits him perfectly... like it was made to fit him... (which it was..:wink_smil ) slim fit like you see in sketches of the period... and that may have been my mistake I am not sure that it should fit so well...

I admit to machine sewing the long seams.. he didn't want to wait for me to hand sew it... and all the top stitching and button holes are all done by hand and matc quite well to the originals I have seen displayed at Gettysburg. I used FHW jean wool and well my next project is a shell jacket and frock coat for my son.

and I have figured out how to make braces... and can make shirts... so on an average day I am not looking to shop with the approved vendors.

with one kid in college and another getting ready to start.. kind of have to sew it myself, if we want better than the run of the mill offerings. I hear of poor college students and I feel their pain having been there once upon a time...... but as a parent paying tuition... the pain returns...LOL

Catherine Kelly

[flattop32355]

Re: What ever happened to...

But people should now not pout when less people start saying things "nicely" because they look for answers that are blatantly located at the top of the window.

Let's keep in mind that there will always be questions about the approved vendors' list.

How did they become "approved" vendors? Who approved them? Did they pay to be approved? Etc, etc, etc... Those questions enter the minds of every reenactor who comes here.

Add to that: not all of a given approved vendor's wares may be given the golden seal of approval. Some make great widgets, but not very good whoozits. So which items exactly are "approved" for that vendor, and which are not?

Follow that with a goodly number of folk on this and other fora who dislike any given approved vendor or his wares, for whatever reasons, firmly believing that he/she has no place in the list, while others sing that person's praises from the rooftops. Whom do you believe? How long should you believe it? Do vendors get lazy like the rest of us and slack off? Can something happen that makes that vendor no longer top shelf?

You might as well try to define what makes a "good" reenactment...Oh, forget, we tried that one already....::confused_

[Charles Heath]

Re: What ever happened to...

Bernie,

Look over your shoulder to make sure on one else is in the room, and hold the monitor up to a mirror for a moment to reveal the coded word:

HCRAESER

Please try to keep this a secret between us. :wink_smil

Thanks.

[flattop32355]

Re: What ever happened to...

Bernie,
Look over your shoulder to make sure on one else is in the room, and hold the monitor up to a mirror for a moment to reveal the coded word:

HCRAESER

Please try to keep this a secret between us. :wink_smil
Thanks.

First of all, I'm please as I can be that you are as equally adept at spelling in reverse as some folk here can do in standard. One more proof that you are a positive influence in the hobby and an exemplary human being. ;)

However, you may wish to try the above in mirror image; I don't think it came out quite as you had intended.

It may serve as an excellent metaphor of good intent that gets lost or muddled in translation, something that is not uncommon here, even amongst the more "learned" of the hobby.

Fortunately, I was able to research the intended message, and was able to discern its true meaning, to our mutual benefit.