pipe tobacco

[55th VVI]

Re: Cigars

Mark,
New Jersey has a long history of growing corn, in large quanitity. Are we no longer counted as North East? Are we the extra holes added to the "corn belt". All joking aside, I think a corn cob pipe would have been more commonly made out want for a pipe, with no other suitable materials around. That being said, I don't feel they would PEC, but very specific to person/place/time (as with most of our "add-ons"). I see rows upon rows of people at events with corncob pipes, because they are cheaper than briar or merschaum, and more sturdy than clay. I have yet to see a correct corn cob pipe in the field. I personally love my merschaum, unfortunetly, it has a fake amber stem. As soon as I can find a real amber or vulcanite (depending on whether I find the documentation for it) I will replace my fake amber. Fortunetly, it does look very much like amber, and will have to do for now.

[markj]

Re: Cigars

Mark,
New Jersey has a long history of growing corn, in large quanitity. Are we no longer counted as North East? Are we the extra holes added to the "corn belt". All joking aside, I think a corn cob pipe would have been more commonly made out want for a pipe, with no other suitable materials around. That being said, I don't feel they would PEC, but very specific to person/place/time (as with most of our "add-ons"). I see rows upon rows of people at events with corncob pipes, because they are cheaper than briar or merschaum, and more sturdy than clay. I have yet to see a correct corn cob pipe in the field. I personally love my merschaum, unfortunetly, it has a fake amber stem. As soon as I can find a real amber or vulcanite (depending on whether I find the documentation for it) I will replace my fake amber. Fortunetly, it does look very much like amber, and will have to do for now.

Indubitably. Being from Indiana, cornfields are pretty much all I see when driving U.S. 52 between my home, in Lafayette, and Indianapolis. I daresay there was also little place called "Miller's Cornfield" at Sharpsburg MD. What is interesting to me is that the citations on the "MoA" and Vicki's sites indicate use of "corn-cob" pipes was heavily (although I'm sure not exclusively) identified with Westerners and Southerners.

The bottom line is "Necessity is the Mother of Invention" so I'm sure, depending on the scenarios involved, use of corn-cob pipes by Federal troops in an Eastern event should be perfectly appropriate.

If I see anything else, I'll be sure to post it!

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Agate]

Re: Cigars

Interesting discussion.

Couple of things I would like to add.

Not all tobacco during the period was grown in the South. Southeastern Ohio, west along the Ohio River, down into southern Indiana and across the river, on into Kentucky has a rich heritage of tobacco cultivation, which still survives. Lot of that crop went into the Cincinnati market which was distributed all over the West and during the prewar period, into the South. Too, there were a number of cigar manufactories in this section of the country.

I would honestly question if a cigar for example purchased in 1859 in Vicksburg, was a product of that section of the country, or the lower midwest.

Another thing to keep in mind is that manufacturers found markets that were lost when the crisis brewed, with the Army. I recently put up a thread which touched on clothiers and the ready-made clothing market, getting goods (private purchase items) to the Army. That is, sending the goods to where the Army was. What we tend to find in papers of the commercial capitols in the North are not adverts from sutlers to soldiers or the individual in the market, but adverts placed by wholesalers or commercial agents. During the period, cigars would have been advertised and purchased in bulk in these places, than distributed in other regions. Covais used to have quite a quote in his old New Columbia catalog that I have always thought somewhat illustrates this point rather well, that with regard to shirts. "Thank you Sir, I shall have a dozen!" Individual packaging BTW, is something that came along to Americans around the time of WW1.

This idea of "garrison" troops/rear areas or whatever is really rather overdone. Federal officers had their photos taken in full dress in areas that were, and are considered the front. Here in the West we find more images of officers and enlisted men in private purchase clothing taken at places like Nashville and Corinth than back North in Illinois or Iowa. One cannot really find a more perfect example of an advanced base of supply than Nashville. Consider the images we pulled up of 13th Corps Veteran regiments in the "Hospital Steward" thread, most taken in New Orleans, and some of the elaborate clothing that was available for purchase in the market. Because it is not normally associated with the image of the hard boned, rugged individual, Western Federal Veteran doesn't mean it didn't happen, this is a matter of correct interpretation. Some of those 13th Corps Vets were the flower of Sherman's Army of the Tennessee, look at how they adorned themselves, and as veterans no less.

My point with this is that goods were brought South, to the Army, that is, to the market. So, a Federal enlistedman would certainly have an opportunity to procure a cigar in the Nashville market, or at Atlanta, as soon as it was safe for merchants to go there, and with a military occupation that isn't all that long a wait. Industrious Yankees do not sit idly by and watch a market for goods appear, then sit back and not capitalize simply because of a War.

Reenactors who are discouraging the smoking of cigars by enlisted men are doing so, IMO, because of the types of cigars that some reenactors smoke. Those nasty little deals that one can find at the local Seven-eleven, which to some reenactors, who do not know period cigars, are acceptable and proper.

This cuts the nose off to spite the face. We can say enlisted men had no access, yet look at the number of images you folks have brought to this thread in it's relatively short life.

BTW, corn cob pipes.

They may very well have been around, as were the little clay "trade" pipe bowls that we often encounter, which was a cheap bowl for the lower classes. We need to research a little further before we start using them in quantity and certainly before declaring them the norm, however. Those Missouri made pipes came to fame at the time of WW1 as they were included in "Komfort Kits" given out by patriotic supporters to Doughboys. A number of WW1 Divisional and Regimental histories have images of these "kits" laid out, that little pipe is everywhere and is rather well known in WW1 collecting circles.

Regards,

John

John Sarver

[FWL]

Re: Cigars

Here is copy of some research from

www.historian.org/bysubject/tobacco2.htm

I have deleted those portions generally not pertaining to the ACW period. I have left in references to the tobacco industry in New England and other Eastern States. I left in other points of interest. For those that don't know the Connecticut River Valley has a long history of tobacco growth begining long before the ACW.

As far as cigars go they were being rolled in CT long before the ACW.

The Nineteenth Century--The Age of the Cigar

------------------------------------------------------------------------
• 1810: CONNECTICUT: Cuban cigar-roller brought to Suffield to train local workers. (ATS)
• 1830s: First organized anti-tobacco movement in US begins as adjunct to the temperance movement. Tobacco use is considered to dry out the mouth, "creating a morbid or diseased thirst" which only liquor could quench..
• 1839: AGRICULTURE: NORTH CAROLINA: SLADE "yallercure" presages flue-cured Bright tobacco. Charcoal used in flue-curing for the first time in North Carolina. Not only cheaper, its intense heat turns the thinner, low-nicotine Piedmont leaf a brilliant golden color. This results in the classic American "Bright leaf" variety, which is so mild it virtually invites a smoker to inhale it.(RK), (ATS)
• 1846-1848: MEXICAN WAR US soldiers bring back a taste for the darker, richer tobacco favored in Latin countries, leading to an explosive increase in the use of the cigar.
• 1852: Matches are introduced, making smoking more convenient.
• 1853-1856: EUROPE: CRIMEAN WAR British soldiers learn how cheap and convenient the cigarettes ("Papirossi") used by their Turkish allies are, and bring the practise back to England.
• 1860: The Census for Virginia and North Carolina list 348 tobacco factories, virtually all producing chewing tobacco. Only 6 list smoking tobacco as a side-product (which is manufactured from scraps left over from plug production).
• 1860: BUSINESS: Manufactured cigarettes appear. A popular early brand is Bull Durham.
• 1860: BUSINESS: MARKETING: Lorillard wraps $100 bills at random in packages of cigarette tobacco named "Century," in order to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of the firm (BD)
• 1861-1865: USA: THE CIVIL WAR: Tobacco is given with rations by both North and South; many Northerners are introduced to tobacco this way. During Sherman's march, Union soldiers now attracted to the mild, sweet "bright" tobacco of the South, raided warehouses--including Washington Duke's--for some chew on the way home. Some bright made it all the way back. Bright tobacco becomes the rage in the North.
• 1862: First federal USA tax on tobacco; instituted to help pay for the Civil War, yields about three million dollars.(TSW)
• 1863: US Mandates Cigar Boxes. Congress passes a law calling for manufacturers to create cigar boxes on which IRS agents can paste Civil War excise tax stamps. The beginning of "cigar box art."
• 1864: AGRICULTURE: WHITE BURLEY first cultivated in Ohio Valley; highly absorbent new leaf proves ideal for sweetened chewing tobacco.
• 1864: BUSINESS: 1st American cigarette factory opens and produces almost 20 million cigarettes.
• 1864: First tax levied on cigarettes.

Frank Lilley

[Pvt. Myers]

Re: Cigars

I think most soldiers back then were like many of us today; that is if they could get a cigar they would smoke it even if they had to pay a little more than usual for tobacco. Pipe smoking is much more labor intensive as you need to tamp the pipe often and the fire goes out more often than that of a cigar.

Much like 10 years ago when Americans began smoking more and more cigars (probably as a status thing) I'm sure the soldier of the Civil War thought much the same.

I find no problem in anyone smoking cigars at today's reenactments as there is plenty of proof they smoked them when they could get them!

[Amtmann]

Re: Cigars

Something to remember is that most cigar rollers were TALENTED, not really the type that would roll a "Backwoods" type cigar.

Homogonized wrapper leaf like what is on Swisher Sweets and other types from the gas station was not around. Cigars were wrapped with real leaf.

An 1860s Louisville City Directory lists Havana and Cuban cigars (don't know why they listed them as such) among quite a few dealers. One even has a list of brands, some still in existance.

So if you're going to smoke a cigar: Go for a good hand rolled and look into the sizes AND shapes that were around at the time.

Also a member of:
El Rey Del Mundo Mess
Bolivars Own
La Gloria Cubano Guard

[K Bartsch]

Re: Cigars

Something to remember is that most cigar rollers were TALENTED, not really the type that would roll a "Backwoods" type cigar.

Homogonized wrapper leaf like what is on Swisher Sweets and other types from the gas station was not around. Cigars were wrapped with real leaf.

An 1860s Louisville City Directory lists Havana and Cuban cigars (don't know why they listed them as such) among quite a few dealers. One even has a list of brands, some still in existance.

So if you're going to smoke a cigar: Go for a good hand rolled and look into the sizes AND shapes that were around at the time.

Also a member of:
El Rey Del Mundo Mess
Bolivars Own
La Gloria Cubano Guard

Mr Bailey,
I quite agree sir.
Attached you'll find an image from the Library of Congress holdings. The photo is a view of Whitehall Street in 1864 Atlanta. Interesting juxtaposition. As we can see, even a "backwater" little burg like Atlanta had at least one cigar factory.



Cordially,

[K Bartsch]

Re: Cigars

I think most soldiers back then were like many of us today; that is if they could get a cigar they would smoke it even if they had to pay a little more than usual for tobacco. Pipe smoking is much more labor intensive as you need to tamp the pipe often and the fire goes out more often than that of a cigar.

Much like 10 years ago when Americans began smoking more and more cigars (probably as a status thing) I'm sure the soldier of the Civil War thought much the same.

I find no problem in anyone smoking cigars at today's reenactments as there is plenty of proof they smoked them when they could get them!

Mr Myers,
Welcome to our forums, As a fellow who enjoys both pipes and cigars, I would add that the pipe does have an advantage over a cigar in one respect. If one gets busy, one can let a pipe go out, then relight later when an opportunity presents itself. Relighting "interrupted" cigars (cigars that have been allowed to go out, or intentionally snuffed) is a nasty proposition.

BTW, Please sign your name to your posts using your real name. That is required here. Helps keep things more civil.

Cordially,

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Cigars

Couple of things I would like to add.

Not all tobacco during the period was grown in the South. Southeastern Ohio, west along the Ohio River, down into southern Indiana and across the river, on into Kentucky has a rich heritage of tobacco cultivation, which still survives. Lot of that crop went into the Cincinnati market which was distributed all over the West and during the prewar period, into the South. Too, there were a number of cigar manufactories in this section of the country. John Sarver

And the product of one of the better-known cigar makers of the region, the Marsh Wheeling, can still be found for sale by some vendors at events. The Marsh Co. started in 1840 and would Wheelings probably would have been easily obtainable in the Eastern theater throughout the war.

http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/people/hallfame/1990mars.htm

[hutchpat]

Re: Cigars

And the product of one of the better-known cigar makers of the region, the Marsh Wheeling, can still be found for sale by some vendors at events. The Marsh Co. started in 1840 and would Wheelings probably would have been easily obtainable in the Eastern theater throughout the war.

Alas, Mr. Cochran, the famous "Marsh Wheeling" cigars (reputedly the favorites of U.S. Grant himself) are no longer a product of Wheeling (now) West Virginia, as this quote from the company's own website makes clear:

"At year end 2001, M. Marsh and Son closed their plant in Wheeling, West Virginia and National Cigar Corporation purchased all the Marsh Wheeling brands from M. Marsh & Son. All Marsh Wheeling stogies and cigars are now manufactured and sold from Frankfort, Indiana."

Too bad! I have driven through the Wheeling area many times, and always meant to stop at the site of the factory (visible quite plainly from the road as you take the interstate east through town). Now, it seems, I shall never have the chance. Another authentic piece of Civil War-connected history is gone! Although, as a cigar smoker, I have to admit that Marsh Wheeling "stogies" may be acceptable for a period event, but they sure don't cut the mustard as a quality modern cigar!

[Bill]

Re: Cigars

In Mathew Brady's famous photo of a Southern refugee family, taken in 1861; the lady standing in front of the wagon sure looks like she's smoking a corncob pipe. I doubt that corncob pipes would have been purchased during this period, since they are so easy to make. Nothing more then a bored out corncob and a reed stem.

[bugler3rdusarty]

Re: Cigars

I sure hope people are buying color designation of AMS, also known as Claro. Until about 1890, that was the most popular wrapper shade. Tastes have changed quite a bit since then, so they're hard to find. I kinda think they tates like smoking lawn clippings. :sick: Anyway, a lot of these guys even knew how to "roll their own" cigars...my grandfather used to talk about watching his father roll his own cigars.

Pipes are easier to deal with, but again, tobacco styles have changes quite a bit. We tend (moderns) to smoke heavily cased pipe tobacco. Long ago, the only casing, if you can call it that, was in Cavendish, which originated from tobacco leaves packed in rum casks. Any other flavorings were from blends of different varieties ond cures of tobacco. Cut was also typically more rough.

Hope this helps. (Wonder if anyone cares ;) )

[BrSpiritus]

Re: Cigars

I sure hope people are buying color designation of AMS, also known as Claro. Until about 1890, that was the most popular wrapper shade. Tastes have changed quite a bit since then, so they're hard to find.

Claro cigars were the favourite of Americans until the late 1950's early 60's. They are actually making a comeback as far as modern cigars, however you find them mostly on machine mades now. The machine mades taste like lawn clippings, quality claro cigars taste sweet and let the taste of the fill tobacco through. I am personally wondering how much snuff was in use during the war. Anyone have any info on that?

L. Alexander Tamasi

[markj]

Re: Cigars

Alas, Mr. Cochran, the famous "Marsh Wheeling" cigars (reputedly the favorites of U.S. Grant himself) are no longer a product of Wheeling (now) West Virginia, as this quote from the company's own website makes clear:

"At year end 2001, M. Marsh and Son closed their plant in Wheeling, West Virginia and National Cigar Corporation purchased all the Marsh Wheeling brands from M. Marsh & Son. All Marsh Wheeling stogies and cigars are now manufactured and sold from Frankfort, Indiana."

Too bad! I have driven through the Wheeling area many times, and always meant to stop at the site of the factory (visible quite plainly from the road as you take the interstate east through town). Now, it seems, I shall never have the chance. Another authentic piece of Civil War-connected history is gone! Although, as a cigar smoker, I have to admit that Marsh Wheeling "stogies" may be acceptable for a period event, but they sure don't cut the mustard as a quality modern cigar!

Indeed. The Wheeling operation is now located in Frankfort, which is only 20 minutes from where I live (Lafayette IN). I haven't been to the Wheeling facilities yet but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell "seconds" there. Here's the Marsh Wheeling/National Cigar Company website for any who are interested:

http://www.marshwheeling.com/

I don't know if it would even be worth the time to do so, but some intrepid soul might want to examine the cigars that were recovered from the Steamer Bertrand. They were pretty waterlogged, as I recall, but I think they've been conserved (probably freeze-dried) to the point where one might be able to determine the tobacco used as well how they were rolled. These "segars" were undoubtedly mass-market products catering to the miner trade. I suspect their taste was pretty "rough and ready," to say the least.

As for me, we have a pretty decent tobacconist here in Lafayette (Bogie's Stogies). My current favorite is the Arango Sportsman Vanilla No. 400 Maduro. For a machine-made cigar, it's a decent smoke for only $2 each--real big seller.

Regards,

Mark D. Jaeger

[Darrell Cochran]

Re: Cigars

Indeed. The Wheeling operation is now located in Frankfort, which is only 20 minutes from where I live (Lafayette IN). I haven't been to the Wheeling facilities yet but I wouldn't be surprised if they sell "seconds" there. Here's the Marsh Wheeling/National Cigar Company website for any who are interested: http://www.marshwheeling.com/ Regards,
Mark D. Jaeger

I was aware that Marsh had sold out, but the label - and so the tradition - lives on, and I don't see how a fellow could be wrong to indulge in a stogie whose label was 21 years old when the war started ... After all, we still eat Bent's hardtack today, don't we ?