Terminology help

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

In The Seventy Ninth Highlanders N.Y. Vols. 1861-1865 written by W. Todd, on page 5 he says:

"At three o'clock in the afternoon line was formed for instpection and dress-parade, under the direction of General Ewen. All the officers and many of the men wore the kilts while the rest of the men were dressed in handsome State jackets with red facings, blue fatigue caps and Cameron tartan pants, these, with the kilted officers and men, made our appearance quite picturesque."

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again:

The Washington Star
June 4, 1861

"......About one third of the members wear the full Highland uniform, the remainder being dressed in blue jackets trimmed with red, dark green plaid pants, and blue fatigue cap..........."

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and another:

New York Times
Monday, 3 June 1861

.....Then came the officers, variously clad in the tartans of their clans; then the Commanding Officer, Lieut.-Col. ELLIOTT, and various other military dignitaries; then the men, dressed in dark jackets tipped with red, and plaid pantaloons.......

Would this jacket be a red New York State jacket instead of a light blue one?

[Western Blue Belly]

Re: Terminology help

The jacket as a whole would not have been red. This was a very early war look for the highlanders. The jacket was a dark blue doublet trimmed in red very much like a artillery or cav. service jacket would have been, (being replaced later by state jackets, and before wars end by the sack coat). Trimmed around the bottom, up the front. The red facings refer to the scalloped area near the cuff (as seen in your photo), that would have been solid red, trimmed in light blue. The tartan pants or kilt of course being Cameron of Erracht. Hope this helps.

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Terminology help

Ken is correct. The facings he speaks of most likely refer to the false cuffs (or scallops if you'd like) and the collar treatment of the doublet. Later the 79th was issued NY state jackets trimmed first in red, and later in light blue much as you would see on a trimmed mounted service jacket.

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Re: Terminology help

Is the basic idea like this?



(From: http://www.ushist.com/wardrobe/q-050...helljacket.htm)

[Western Blue Belly]

Re: Terminology help

Is the basic idea like this?



(From: http://www.ushist.com/wardrobe/q-050...helljacket.htm)

Now your on the right track. I'm not sure though if the 79th's issued trimmed state jacket had the false cuffs like the doublet, but thats the right idea. The rank would still have been light blue.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Terminology help

Being an artillery unit, red does seem to be a good choice for branch color.

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Terminology help

Indeed, the state jackets had no false cuffs and the rank insignia was still blue for infantry.

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Re: Terminology help

Ok. That is what I was thinking. Another thing that I find interesting is this jacket right here.



I have talked with Justin Runyon about it a little and it amazes me.

One question I have always had was is there a way to figure out a date when this was taken? I have always thought 1862

From my best educated guesses, the chevrons are red, the pants are light blue, there are only buttons on the cuffs, and on the cuffs he has something that looks like confederate lieutenant insignia.

[Fenianboy]

Re: Terminology help

i sent you a private message which may be of some assistance. Bud:) Scully 13th NJ and 69th NY

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Terminology help

Hallo!

"Facings" is a hold back term to the 18th century referring to collar, cuffs, lapels, and turned back skirts.
As with many words/terms in the Civil War, knowing what "usage' comes from the mind of the writer can be hard. I would agree with what has alrelady been shared, and say that the writer was referring to "trim" or as the other writer used "tipped" rather than any semblance of "facings."

Curt

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Terminology help

My best guess is the second jacket you pictured is some sort of privately procured item. It clearly is not the pre-war doublet or a NY jacket. With teh odd button placement and the trefoil on the cuff, it does'nt look like anything Ive seen widely issued. Perhaps Mark Herman can look at this one as he is my man to go to on other NY garments.

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Re: Terminology help

Thank you all for your input. I will see what I can come up with. Now that my other projects or more or less done, I can put more effort into this jacket style. (The type discribed by Todd and the newspapers) I would love my impresson to always be pre-war or 1861

[easttnfed]

Re: Terminology help

All:

Being a former member of the 79th Co. A, I have the liberty of knowing one particular person that has done extensive research on this subject.

Taken from his book, History of the 79th New York Cameron Highlanders 1859-1876, William A Beard III states: "There is no doubt that the 79th wore doublets at Bull Run...............When the doublets wore out, the state of New York Supplied the 79th with state jackets of dark blue. They were similar to the doublet except they had no skirt. Some state jackets had winged epaulettes an some had piping. EOG Arms and Equipment of the Union picture two excellent state jackets. ..................The state jacket most likely used according to contemporary accounts of the 79th marching off to was like the one pictured on page 153. This jacket is trimmed in red piping, with a stand up collar, red cuff guards, epaulette wings, side pocket, and nine NY 30 buttons."

This source comes from "Some Answers To Some Common Questions About the State Jackets" from The Seventy-Nineth Thistle Vol. III No. 2, Winter 2000 (page 26) written by Mr. Beard; "The common state jacket of New York was an eight-button jacket with light blue trim or piping and had "winged" epaulettes on the shoulders, also trimmed in light blue piping. These were the most common state jackets worn by the 79th throughout the war....................The common light-blue trimmed state jacket from New York is what appeared in great numbers in the 79th camps from 1862-1865. The 79th also had their share of standard Union uniforms as is evidenced by the amount of "eagle buttons" dug in their camps from 1862-1865. These buttons indicate frock coats, sack coats, and shell jackets."

Later in the article; "The special state jacket was trimmed in red with red cuff guards and had nine buttons............"

Hope this helps.

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Re: Terminology help

That is the jacket design that I created a few months ago!

One question though. From the buttons dug up after 140 years or so, in locations that other regiments could have camped, how is it thought that those exact buttons were worn by uniforms of a jacket in a spacific unit. Futher more, A spacific type of jacket. (Frock coats, sack coats, and shell jackets)

[easttnfed]

Re: Terminology help

The camp site that was found was only mentioned in the the letters and diaries of the men of the 79th. Reseach proved that no one else camped at this camp site. It was the winter quarters of the 79th while they were here in East Tennessee throughout the war. The reason we know that this camp was the 79th's camp is because of the massive 79th artifacts that were found there. Research helped in our knowledge of what the 79th wore while they were here in East Tennessee also. This is why we know for certain that frocks, sacks, and NY coats were worn and explains why all three buttons were found in this one particular camps. There is also another 79th camp located in Jefferson City that was used by the 79th during the Mossy Creek fight. Again, official reports state what uniforms were worn there also.

Contact Dewey Beard on this, he and a couple of friends of his found these camps and did the research on this area.