CW Uniforms used by NPS

[laudable_pus]

Most Civil War related National Parks have a stock of period uniforms that can be worn by NPS employees and volunteers for Living History talks and demos. Anyone know what their source is and where it may rank on the C/P/H scale?

[coastaltrash]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Lewis,
Mostly it depends on the park. I know that the the two actual seasonal rangers and the CO at the park supply their own stuff at Vicksburg, but maintain asorted lesser quality (cheap) items for the volunteers. Maybe Lee White can ring in here, but I think the quality of the uniforms purchased would depend on budget fo the interpretive programs and the general knowledge of what they are buying.

[MissouriStateGuard]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Lewis,

There is not a NPS-wide standard for living history clothing or accouterment- it will vary greatly from site to site and from LH/Interp program administrator to administrator, depending on the emphasis placed on the program by a succession of superintendents. Some sites i have worked for/with have 30+ year old LH caches, with everything from Harper's Ferry mfd clothing ca. 1975 to Jarnagin, New Columbia, Childs, Covais, etc. Many LH interpretors choose to use their own clothing and equipment rather that wear the mediocre and sub-standard material the site can provide.

If you have been really impressed by the appearance of a certain site's interpretors I would suggest you call the site and ask to speak to it's LH representative- that may be the chief ranger, historian, volunteer coordinator, or other designee. You can't go wrong asking for the chief ranger, as he or she should be able to put you in contact with the person you seek.

Hope this helps, & good luck in your search.

Kip Lindberg

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Many LH interpretors choose to use their own clothing and equipment rather that wear the mediocre and sub-standard material the site can provide.

This is a subject that has come to personal attention recently. I have recently been offered a job at Pamplin Historical Park in Petersburg, Virginia. Being a living historian, my first question was, of course, can I bring my own gear or is it supplied? The answer there was the same as what's being discussed. The Park supplies everything but I could bring my own stuff with the consent that they're not responsible for it.

Like Mr. Lindberg said, there may or may not be items for progressive needs. So, it's ultimately up to the interpreter. On that note, I also wanted to comment that my Federal tarred haversack was a product of the Petersburg NPS. I have no idea who made it but they did a fantastic job in recreating it.

Regards,

[Dignann]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

As has been mentioned, the NPS does not have a list of sources that they obtain their uniforms or equipment from. For those sites that use costumed interpreters, it's up to the individual parks to find a supplier and procure the necessary items. Therefore, the quality does differ from park to park, and probably falls short of the standards many of us expect for ourselves. There are a few reasons for this:

1. Use -- Most parks use costumed interpreters as a supplement to their traditional programs - i.e. walking tours, ranger talks, etc.Very few sites emphasize living history with their own staff. So, the uniforms and equipment don't get used very much. A few parks I've been at have closets full of uniforms that go back to the 1970's.

2. Knowledge -- Very few folks are as knowledgable as the reenacting and living history community when it comes to the material culture of the Civil War armies. The average NPS ranger focuses on the events that make his or her site significant, not who wore what.

3. Budget -- Most parks don't get much in the way of a budget to upgrade their reproduction uniforms and equipment. So, they often buy what they can afford and do their best to stretch the budget.

More and more parks are hiring costumed interpreters who have reenacting experience. They often bring their own knowledge and uniforms to their job, which is obvious when you visit those sites.

Eric

[Ken]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

I've noticed that some parks have better uniforms and equipment then others. I don't know if anyone ever took a close look at the boots and brogans in the store at Harpers Ferry. They are spot on. Look like originals. I inquired about them one day when I was there and I found out that they were made by the long gone Mason Dixon Boot Company. Really sweet but no longer available.

[laudable_pus]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Thanks for the great responses. Several questions were answered. My interest was just general curiosity since I've noticed a variety of items used.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

I guess I’ll chime in here with my NPS experiences with LH over the course of a summer. All of the posts so far have been exactly in accord with what I observed. I’d just like to echo a few points already made.

I can definitely attest to Mr. Lindberg’s and Mr. Mink’s thoughts on 30+ year old LH supplies. I remember searching through shelf after shelf of tin drum canteens to find one with as little rust as possible to drink from. And some of the wooden canteens hadn’t seen a drop of water in a decade. I seem to remember something about a briefly using a double bag which was a few years older than myself. Granted, what was there seemed to be of good quality, but hadn’t left the warehouse in a few seasons. The same generally went for most of the uniforms and equipment owned by the park, though I did not examine them too closely, as for the most part I used my own. So it might be best, as has been said, to let Mr. White render a verdict on that score.

This, however, does bring up a question on my part. When did the NPS have the resources to use 20 or so canteens, artillery jackets, or anything else that was in the LH warehouse? I certainly can’t imagine ALL of that gear being for full-time seasonal use simply because of the funding needed to pay that many people. Building off of a couple of Mr. Mink’s ideas here and doing a bit of speculating, has the increased availability of quality reenactors and their kits eliminated the need to completely outfit 10 or 15 local high school kids to do a cannon demo? If any of the excellent NPS LH events which have been posted on this board are any indication, the question must be asked: is the living history warehouse as outdated as some of the equipment in it? Can the NPS get as good or a better interpretive program from some of the groups around here as it could produce itself? Should the LH warehouse (could it) be pared down to a LH closet with three or five good, accurate, complete kits? Just a thought.

I’ve rambled a good deal, if I’ve gone too far reel me back in.

Patrick Lewis

[coastaltrash]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Speaking from my understanding at Vicksburg- they do uniform volunteers for their demos (from what I understand 10-15 kids) so I know the items are well used there. I'm sure though when you're aiming to outfit a large number of kids on a budget it really doesn't matter.

[LWhite64]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Well as has been stated it varies from park to park, for instances we have a ton of Jarny stuff from the 70s, and somehow managed to have a Covais commercial sack too, we got some good stuff about ten years ago and that is mainly what we have relied on since then. I would say from what I have seen that most NPS coffers are filled with old Jarny stuff.

Lee

[Bummer]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Wanna hear a tough story? Years--decades ago--I was a mounted Ranger at Gettysburg--back when they had such a thing. Anyway, once or twice a week I'd do a cavalryman LH talk. In amongst their LH stuff was an original US belt, the interpreters would just bang it around not even knowing. I called attention to this saying they should treat the original stuff better. The Chief Interpreter said 'we never use original stuff--against policy, blah blah...'. I then pointed out that my horse during his LH Cavalry time was adorned in a really nice (very usable) original CW halter (I'd have loved to have had it as it was really in nice shape and one rare piece of leatherwork). He said, "Oh no, we can't use that, we'll have a reproduction made."
Sure enough, a couple weeks later when I went to saddle up the ole nag for his Civil War duties there was a beautiful reproduction Civil War halter--very nice ( I don't know who made it). As I put it on the horse I noticed the really nice original buckles and hardware.....and noticed it was the same original buckles and hardware......
No the NPS does not as a matter of policy use original artifacts--no matter what.

Wish I'd kept my mouth shut.

[missourirelics]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

When I worked as a seasonal ranger at V-burg, we used our own gear. The ranger there was very progressive and knowledgable on the subject of uniforms and equipment of the War. Ryan Meyer I think, converted him over to the "dark" side. Rick had already began to phase out the old uniforms and bring in Jarnigan jean wool items, obviously not perfect, but better and good for the budget.

Paul Arnold
Wretched Mess
Commissary BGR

[Dignann]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

When did the NPS have the resources to use 20 or so canteens, artillery jackets, or anything else that was in the LH warehouse? I certainly can’t imagine ALL of that gear being for full-time seasonal use simply because of the funding needed to pay that many people.

Beginning in the 1960's, living history became an integral part of interpretive programs at many NPS historic sites. These types of program gained popularity through the 1970's, before waning in the mid-late 1980's. The NPS even hosted living history "retreats" or training events for its permanent staff, where living history "skills" were taught.

Many battlefields had sizeable living history components. Richmond NBP had a full gun crew, as did Antietam, I believe. Until recently Petersburg NBP's gun crew (horse drawn) still provided daily cannon and mortar demos. Fredericksburg & Spotsylvania NMP had a "permanent" Confederate camp at Chancellorsville that was staffed every summer by six or so paid employees (somewhere I have a photo of Les Jensen during his time there). Richmond NBP had a similar arrangement at Fort Harrison. Many current park superintendents and managers started in the NPS by donning wool.

I'm guessing that as these programs fell by the wayside, the uniforms and equipment were thrown into storage, where they still sit, only being brought out for the occassional school programs.

Eric

[coastaltrash]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

Gotta agree with Paul, Rick Martin at Vburg is a rare one indeed, I think owed in part to Ryan. I know he's got some Becky Nall and Scott Lyndon made stuff sitting in his personal closet from what he told me. Pretty crazy to meet a Chief of Operations who gives a damn about uniforms.

[rake]

Re: CW Uniforms used by NPS

V'burg may have started in on the authentic path earlier than that. When were were there for LH in '83, the NPS crew was outfitted by Jarny. After the Memorial Day weekend LH, they were very interested in our stuff and we started to talk sources.

"where did you get that?"

"We make them....."

Great folks to work with.