'Baseball cap visors'

[Bummer]

Forgive me for being ignorant here, but I was purusing the thread with the great 93rd NY photographs and there was mention of 'baseball cap brims'. I'm not sure what is meant these days by this other than it is supposed to be bad. I've been around a while and the only thing I thought that referred to was the bad reproduction kepis with the brims put on as would be on a 'type I' bummer cap; slanting down rather than flat as kepis should be; and I agree that is bad thing (drives me nuts).

But somehow I am getting the impression that one can wear an authentic reproduction forage cap as a 'baseball cap visor' and that it is generally forbidden. How is this so? I'm asking seriously here. I see original photos of the boys wearing forage cap brims about anyway you can imagine from creased right in the middle to bent completely up...of course there are varying degrees of commonness to these various folds, creases, and styles, which I think merely reflect local fashion trend within units rather than anachronism (and let's face it, there are always those who will not follow the latest trend).
Also to me the so-called 'type one' forage cap has a very down curved visor when it was new and will look that way if you just wear it without attempting any special 'shaping'...which is how I wear mine.

So what is meant by 'baseball cap brim'? And why is such a bad thing (assuming you are wearing an authentic cap to begin with)? Down here in the south I see those 'crap caps' worn every day--even while eating in a resturant--and the wearer's shaping of the brims on them don't look a whole lot different than the typical bummer cap with the visor left alone. Am I missing something here?

Puzzled.

[Charles Heath]

Re: 'Baseball cap visors'

Spence,

Take some time to eyeball those old images to see how common the baseball cap (or as we used to say "trademark cap" ) visor has been shaped into a tight upside down "U" with a spread of only 2-3 inches. Yes, the kind of thing worn on the back of the head, and most likely formed with the help of a rubber band. Images of similar brim modifications exist from the period, but they sure are uncommon.

IMHO, once a forage cap gets soaking wet a few times it takes on a life of its own.

[Mike N]

Re: 'Baseball cap visors'

... IMHO, once a forage cap gets soaking wet a few times it takes on a life of its own.

Boy isn't that the truth!

Regarding the "baseball cap visors" once again the idea that the troops "always" did something or "never" did something can generally be disproven pretty easily. Charles offers sound advice however. Take a hard look at the photographic evidence and stick with what you see most commonly.

Regards,

Mike Nugent

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: 'Baseball cap visors'

Spence, you've probably seen a huge range of ins and outs over your reenacting career. Seems to me, in my short time in, that it gets to the difference between "reenactorisms" (something inauthentic in itself, or way overdone) and "authenticisms" (something never done at all anymore because it's been way overdone).

As for me, I've been intrigued for some time over a line in William Armstrong's Red Tape and Pigeon Hole Generals about a soldier's cap being red from age rather than the blood of any battle -- perhaps a rare original source account of indigo fabric fading to purple due to high indirubin content...

[Bummer]

Re: 'Baseball cap visors'

>>>IMHO, once a forage cap gets soaking wet a few times it takes on a life of its own.<<<

That's the truth! I appreciate the answers here--especially about the 'authenticisms'--I like that!

As for me, I don't do anything with my visors--I wear a 'type I' as a rule which have pretty downcurled visors to begin with. Mine seems to want to bend down even more, but not in the center but an inch or two from the right side because it is where my thumb hits it when I take if off/put it on. But not so noticable as what Mr. Heath speaks of by any means.

Of course I have checked out many photos and notice some indeed that seem creased right down the middle like someone sticks in his pocket that way--but of course very few. And I see a lot more than one would expect that are bent straight up--which I would never do. But by in large the vast majority seem to be just curved down much as mine is--and most of the 'crap caps' the present rednecks wear (no offense meant by that last)--but not as curled as what I believe is meant here. I guess the people around here don't crease them up as much as do some in other places and that might have thrown me off a bit because I don't see that much difference between the local redneck cap brims and the Civil War photos.

So am I to accept that the 'baseball visor' is ANY one that has an excessive curve to it? If so I would say (and completely agree) that that curve is quite unusual, but by no means unheard of. I guess it really depends, like so many things--like wearing traps up around your armpit--how often it is represented by today's 'kewl' as opposed to how often represented by the stylish of the 1860's. Thus keeping the representation of these fads at period numbers. One can find examples of ANYTHING, but how often was it represented---then and now--is the key here.

I worry about folks doing things just to be contrary to what the 'mainstream' does...using present 'kewl' (reenactor) fad and fashion, rather than doing things because it was the 'cool' fashion with the original boys back then as shown by extant artifacts, testimony, and pictorial evidence. Do people spend more time examining these things or simply aping the 'kewl' reenactors? That is the question.

In my years I have seen many reenactor fads and fashions come and go--and have been around long enough to see them for what they are.

Thanks.

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: 'Baseball cap visors'

Mr. Waldron,

Thoughtful posts and an interesting point.

Just wanted to thank you again for taking the time to take part in my oral history project this past fall. -Garrett