History in the Classrooms

[Beaner]

I'm throwing this out to the A.C. for discussion. I'm a fairly well educated individual who grew up in the public school system. My question to all is how do we get schools to teach history the way it should be taught? My daughters' American History Class (High School & College) passed over the French Indian War, touched on the War of Independence, passed over the War of 1812, didn't even talk about Jacksonianism, and then skipped the Civil War and went straight to the Reconstruction. It appears that anytime there's a conflict of ideas to talk about it is just passed by. Previous generations made choices, taking stands on the events that effected their lives. Their choices may not have been good ones, but, they created this great country we have today. If we don't understand the hows and whys of our past how will we make the right choices for our future? Again how can we fix a system gone wrong?

Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E

[btfire]

Re: History in the Classrooms

I have three kids. One thing I do with my own kids is trying to get them to question history. One child actually commented in class how the teacher may have had the facts wrong and that the book did not even come close. She was promptly put in her place. History is always written by the victors, but now it seems that history in schools must be changed to meet the current political atmosphere. You are right, conflict is seemingly not allowed in the classroom. It is sad, since conflict has shaped all of human history. We spend so much time hitting on only our century, which is very important, but we miss the many important topics of the not-so-distant past. I do not think any community, no matter how large or small, can change the supposedly progressive classrooms of the 21st Century. But we, as parents and historians, have the obligation to teach our own kids the past as best we can. Teaching them the importance of questioning what they read and see, and how to dig for more information. I had a history teacher, probably the last of a dying breed, who said he could care less if we knew when the Declaration of Independence was signed...as long as we knew WHY it was signed, which is really the important point.

[DJCasey]

Re: History in the Classrooms

I don't know if it is a matter of avoiding topics with conflict of ideas. Every topic that has been studied contains confict of ideas. I am not a teacher myself, but am good friends with several US history teachers. They see it as a matter of time. There is too much important history to cover in too little time and, lets face it, it is all important. It comes down to how much the teacher can fit in. I remember my US history class in high school ending just after WWII due to time restrictions. Also, being so crunched for time, the teachers end up spending time on what they see as important (or is just more interesting to them). I have a good friend that spends a great deal of time on the Civil War and Jacksonianism, simply becuase this is what he finds interesting. I'm sure he is upsetting some parents with his choice of topics as well. What he tires to do is to give the best overview he can while focusing on topics he is most enthusiastic about and thus will be able to teach best. While the topics you covered are important to you (and me), every teacher is different. US history is complex and varied, and the number of topics and peoples that could be covered is endless. As a US history major, I had teachers that focused on matters suchs as war and politics and I had those that focused on womens and minorities issues. As a result, I had a much richer education by getting a variety of viewpoints. I think it is too hard to please everyone in one class, and, unfortunately, most American high schoolers only get a year of US history with one teacher.

[flattop32355]

Re: History in the Classrooms

Again how can we fix a system gone wrong?
Dave Prince

By getting rid of the politcally correct, milktoast, apologetic "educators" who run the system now by political agenda and tenure, and replacing them with folks who will teach the facts, warts and all, as they happened. That goes for any other subject where interpretation and multiple variable viewpoints is possible, as well.

That doesn't mean we go back to teaching the "Parson Weems" style of deifying our history and ignoring the rough spots. It's our history, good, bad and indifferent. Just Teach it.

[unclefrank]

Re: History in the Classrooms

In my kid's Gov'ment school, they were tought that Harriet Tubman was the greatest person the Civil War era produced. Nathan Bedford Forrest? oh dad wasn't he a TV actor when you were a kid?

(forgive my spelling, but I'm a public school grad)

[Minieball577]

Re: History in the Classrooms

Well as I am sure you know, in the great state of Michigan, there is much more to consider than simply what the teacher knows and doesn't know, or is interested in and is not intersted in. It has been a continual stream of new mandates time and time again from the legislature. I think it would be more productive here to blame those mandates that must be met than what you may or may not perceive as being truth as relayed by your 8th grader. There are bad teachers, but the whole system isn't as fouled up as you might like to think. I know in my professional life there is a constant struggle between teaching what is accepted and required, and what is "real history".

Those of you from Detroit, have you learned anything of value yet about the "Three R's" of "High School" "reform", or the wonderful MME? No? Quit bi$#hing and start becoming informed. Vote.

[Shantyman]

Re: History in the Classrooms

I am a High School student. I think the reason in for all the skipping around in my owne point of view is.

#1 There worried about the big SOL scores, high scores = money for the district. I tried to get a small one day living History going at school but i got blackballed with "It takes too much time out of the SOL cericulem," If its not on the SOL's some bluntly dont care about teaching it.
#2 administrators dont want to get into "touchy subjects" where someone may get offended
#3 If its not coverd thouroughly in a text book they dont want to touch it

If you want your kids to know how it realy happend, tell them yourself, or invest in private education.

Im not trying to insult all teachers, Or all schools for that matter. i know there are many good and deticated ones out there. We got one in our corp who's one of the brightest ive seen.

Im sure theres a US history teacher in the AC who could explain there side of it.


Steven Flibotte
Liberty Hall Fifes and Drums
CSMC Co.C/ Marine Guard USS Galena

[ElizabethClark]

Re: History in the Classrooms

Well, we educate at home.

:)

If that's not the choice you make, do lots of dual-schooling--teach the stuff you want your kids to know at home in the evenings and on weekends.

If you want to expand those opportunities to other people's kids, then come up with programs to take living history into the schools. You won't be able to "fix" everything in one or two sessions, but at the least, you'll spark an interest in the stories of the real people who are our history that, if we're lucky, will cause kids to explore and learn on their own.

If you want to take it even wider, there are ways. But they'd stray far, far into modern political discussions that aren't appropriate for the AC, even in the Sinks.

[brown]

Re: History in the Classrooms

As a disclaimer, I am in the process of making a career change from non-profit management to becoming a secondary social studies teacher.

In 1995, I presented a program to the Chattanooga Civil War Roundtable on how my history classes were failing me. Specifically, I dedicated a good deal of time to ripping into the AP US History textbook my system provided; it said nothing. I then reviewed some of my "graded" tests and assignments full of my teacher's misconceptions. Did you know that Sherman led a charge up Lookout Mountain on November 25, 1862 to open a path to the Battle of Chickamauga in 1863 (NEWS FLASH: My high school sits on property that was designated in Chickamauga's original boundaries and was for a short time owned by the park). This man was a 30+ year veteran of the classroom, so it wasn't the fault of some young teacher.

My high school gave us a(n un) healthy dose of racist history, as well. Reconstruction was a period of "Negro rule and corruption" was to be memorized and was tested. That was an idea forty years (rightfully) out of vogue by the time I was in high school.

Now, as a graduate student in history education, I am not allowed to even suggest that slavery was ONE cause of the Civil War. My ultra-liberal professors told me that I had a right to my opinion, but that slavery is not a cause I should bring-up in my classroom. These two Northerners tore into me over this. I think even most people on this board would agree that slavery played a role, if not the only issue (see Cornerstone Speech thread). Now if that isn't the opposite of the fear of children summarizing the Civil War through slavery only, I don't know what is?

Teachers are human. Some are good, some are not so good; many are great at what they do and know what they are talking about and I know a bunch who are just plain lousy. We face several problems today. All our textbooks are funneled through 3 states; California, New York, and Texas. I don't think that balances our nation well and some even have tiny committees make a huge impact in fields they know little about. And now states like Florida are outlawing all historical interpretation. History is now simply a string of facts in Florida. The irony to me is that the legislature had to interpret history to decide that was possible and the state board of education had to interpret which independent "facts" were important enough to include.

More than most of you wanted to read, but somebody left me a soapbox sitting around here...

[The Egyptian Homeguard]

Re: History in the Classrooms

Steven,

Yes there are many educators in the hobby and a few are found around the AC forum.

Yes, schools are worried about state testing scores because of the funding. Perhaps if teachers made a bit more money, more people would become teachers and there would be better teachers among them. Most of us don't do it for the wealth and glory; it's what we like to do. I’m curious does your state even test for social sciences in their state exams?

Second, ANY topic can be taught if approached correctly, in most cases it is the teacher who is apprehensive to tackle the subject not the administration.

Finally, I haven't seen a textbook yet that I truly like, they are either too vague or skip parts all together but most of the time new teachers are stuck with hand-me-down books that are often years old and there isn't much they can do about it. (One year I had seventy-five books and over eighty students in my middle school class. Students actually had to check books in and out like a library. The district could have purchased the ten or so books that were needed for what I cost them in photocopies that year.) Usually I don't even use a textbook that often, there is so much multi-media available anymore a textbook is just a backup for routine information.

Also you may want to use spell check or proof read what you write: curriculum, covered, thoroughly, really, happened, dedicated and there (their) were all misspelled, and I didn't even go into apostrophe and capitalization usage. People will judge your intelligence and education by what and how you write, even if they have never met you. You could have a doctorate in history but if you can not write or communicate well then it is hard to become noticed. I'm not being an a**; I’m just trying to make a point. If your opinions as a student are to be taken seriously, be articulate and you will be less likely to be dismissed as some re-enactor wack-job who wants to do a show and tell for his class.

One idea is to see if your middle school will let you act as a guest speaker about the Civil War for the 7th and 8th grades and possibly you can get classroom credit for your high school U.S. History class. As far as that goes see if you can get a few pards from your area to volunteer to help you out, two or three are often better. Drop me an e-mail or p.m. and I’ll give you more ideas to run with if you’re interested.

Best of luck with the public school system...
TEH

[CYoungJSU]

Re: History in the Classrooms

I must throw my hat, along with Lindsey, in the ring on this topic. Although I am not currently in the classroom, I am completing my graduate degree in secondary social science education. We teachers here in Alabama are required to follow the Alabama State Course of Study as adopted by the State Department of Education. Now, the course of study does not advocate the skipping of pertinent material and/or controversial views that I have noticed. The major push these days is toward the Alabama High School Graduation Exam and teaching students mathematics, literary comprehension, and science. Now this is not to say that social studies is not important to the student's development. Good teachers will collaborate with each other, not matter the subject, and go from there. Social studies is the foundation of becoming a well informed and active citizen in these United States and therefore is as important as mathematics or general science. Now, going back to the state course of study after my tirade. There are only so many weeks and months in a school year. Therefore, teachers must consult their course of study and what is applicable to the successful completion of that year. Unfortunately, some items may have to be merely mentioned in passing. For example, I cannot spend an entire week teaching primarily about Civil War battles, no matter how much time I believe is necessary to spend on the subject. Yes, often times interesting asides must be passed over quickly. On the positive side, the state of Alabama does have an Alabama History day sponsored by Auburn University at Montgomery, and all students from sixth to twelfth grade are encouraged to participate. Here is the link if you would like to check it out: http://www.alsde.edu/html/sections/H...ooter=sections

I must echo Mr. Brown here. Teachers are indeed human, and there are some good teachers and some bad teachers in our public school systems. Teachers can only do so much about the content taught though. It is the community that needs to push their school board members, state legislators, congressmen, and senators. Teachers have been trying to get their voices heard through state and national associations, but we need help above and beyond our advocacy groups. Now, Let me step off my soap box as well...

Regards,

Chris

[Shantyman]

Re: History in the Classrooms

Yes Sir, Mr. Ziarnek


Steven Flibotte
Liberty Hall Fifes and Drums

[BobbyHughes]

Re: History in the Classrooms

The same thing applies here in Georgia... My wife is a secondary Biology teacher, currently teaching a remediation class for those in danger of failing the Georgia High School Grad Test. I've seen a version of the social studies portion, and honestly there is nothing on the Civil War in it..most of it is world history. But that aside, she told me that the entire curriculum is geared toward the student passing the GHSGT. Everything else kinda goes to the side which is sad sad sad. Unfortunatly, most of her students couldnt care less. I wouldnt put alot of blame on teachers...they work hard at what they do, but when the students dont care, and the parents dont care, it's like beating your head against a wall. The good news is she did have a student tell her that she, my wife, changed the students life.

[Chris Suppelsa]

Re: History in the Classrooms

I'm throwing this out to the A.C. for discussion. I'm a fairly well educated individual who grew up in the public school system. My question to all is how do we get schools to teach history the way it should be taught? My daughters' American History Class (High School & College) passed over the French Indian War, touched on the War of Independence, passed over the War of 1812, didn't even talk about Jacksonianism, and then skipped the Civil War and went straight to the Reconstruction. It appears that anytime there's a conflict of ideas to talk about it is just passed by. Previous generations made choices, taking stands on the events that effected their lives. Their choices may not have been good ones, but, they created this great country we have today. If we don't understand the hows and whys of our past how will we make the right choices for our future? Again how can we fix a system gone wrong?

Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E

I go to the same high school that Dave's daughter went to. My school offers a class dedicated to military history(along with many other history related courses). I'm actually impressed with the way the normal social studies classes are run.

[Charge Bayonets]

Re: History in the Classrooms

[QUOTE=Shantyman;50833]

#1 There worried about the big SOL scores, high scores = money for the district. I tried to get a small one day living History going at school but i got blackballed with "It takes too much time out of the SOL cericulem," If its not on the SOL's some bluntly dont care about teaching it.

Same thing happened to me.
last year I managed to get a class to show all my crap and talk about it.

I wish more of the classes were like that one.
Less of the teachers don't care, but those who do, it's a shame.

I just hate it when the teachers are in the same boat with the kids and don't care.

The Civil War in public school classes:
a huge disapointment