A few years too early but

[john duffer]

I know it's not Civil War related but it's such a great quote I thought it might be allowed in the Sinks. Sir Colin Campbell at the Alma when told the Guards Brigade must withdraw or surely be destroyed:

"It is better, Sir, that every man of Her Majesty's Guards should lie dead upon the field than they should now turn their back upon the enemy."

[rebelfirefighter07]

Re: A few years too early but

Turning your back to the enemy.....

That made me think for a minute. When you deploy out as skirmishers and fall back, do you walk backwards facing the enemy or turn tail until you are in position. I know walking backwards could be a safety issue but I'm curious to learn what was actually supposed to be done. I've heard many soldiers didn't want shot in the back as it would make them appear to be a coward.

1st Cpl. A Witt
52nd Geo Co. I

[straggler]

Re: A few years too early but

There are probably several references in the O.R. but one that comes to mind
regards the 4th U.S., at 2nd Bull Run, while under the command of Captain
Hiram Dryer. Per his report in the O.Rs., after delivering 3 volleys into
Confederate forces (the regiment firing by battalion), Captain Dryer gave the
4th an about face, marched about 30 yards, gave another about face, and
delivered another volley. He then ordered another about face, marched
another 60 yards, ordered another about face and delivered another volley
(from 1 wing only - the regiment being partially covered).

Per Casey's a Direct Step is 28 inches at 90 steps per minute, Double quick
is 33 inches at 165 steps per minute - it lists a backwards step at 14
inches. Did not find the steps per minute but even if the steps per minute
is the same as for Direct Step then a Backwards Step would only cover half
the distance in a given length of time.

In my opinion it seems that at some points it may make sense to turn your
back. For example - if you have superior enemy forces advancing on you -
and they are at a Direct Step and your intent / need is to widen the gap
between you - that is not going to happen if you order a backwards march -
because, by the book, it is a much slower pace.

The men may not like to turn their backs - but 1 way - at a backwards
march you may be over-run or at the least you will be under your enemy's
guns longer and thus suffer higher casualties. If, however, the command is
given to about face, and a double quick is given, then the gap will be increased
faster, etc.

[Charles Heath]

Re: A few years too early but

Admiral,

Perhaps "Retire as individuals, by running like the wind" will be a suitable command for late next week.

[Old Reb]

Re: A few years too early but

Being my memory is still in place but placing things in place has become a chore, I do think I remember reading where an officer in an Arkansas unit gave the command to run to the rear and reform. Don't think that came from Hardee's or Scott's but sure makes sense to me.

[BobbyHughes]

Re: A few years too early but

Turning your back to the enemy.....

That made me think for a minute. When you deploy out as skirmishers and fall back, do you walk backwards facing the enemy or turn tail until you are in position. I know walking backwards could be a safety issue but I'm curious to learn what was actually supposed to be done. I've heard many soldiers didn't want shot in the back as it would make them appear to be a coward.

1st Cpl. A Witt
52nd Geo Co. I

Andy,

PM'd ya!

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Re: A few years too early but

There are probably several references in the O.R. but one that comes to mind
regards the 4th U.S., at 2nd Bull Run, while under the command of Captain
Hiram Dryer. Per his report in the O.Rs., after delivering 3 volleys into
Confederate forces (the regiment firing by battalion), Captain Dryer gave the
4th an about face, marched about 30 yards, gave another about face, and
delivered another volley. He then ordered another about face, marched
another 60 yards, ordered another about face and delivered another volley
(from 1 wing only - the regiment being partially covered).

Per Casey's a Direct Step is 28 inches at 90 steps per minute, Double quick
is 33 inches at 165 steps per minute - it lists a backwards step at 14
inches. Did not find the steps per minute but even if the steps per minute
is the same as for Direct Step then a Backwards Step would only cover half
the distance in a given length of time.

In my opinion it seems that at some points it may make sense to turn your
back. For example - if you have superior enemy forces advancing on you -
and they are at a Direct Step and your intent / need is to widen the gap
between you - that is not going to happen if you order a backwards march -
because, by the book, it is a much slower pace.

The men may not like to turn their backs - but 1 way - at a backwards
march you may be over-run or at the least you will be under your enemy's
guns longer and thus suffer higher casualties. If, however, the command is
given to about face, and a double quick is given, then the gap will be increased
faster, etc.

Yes, that is a very logical point. If you about turn tail you will get away faster. In my opinion though, this quote is an example of the soldier's feelings about doing that. I believe that in some cases it was preferred by soldiers to not turn but face the enemy just like the Sir Colin Campbell is saying. In a sense he is saying 'I would rather we all die then dishonor ourself s'.

I believe that sometimes people read to much into what the manuals say and fail to put into account what the men that where their said. For example, the organization I am in has caught a lot of flak for "creating commands" and marching to the rear when the regimental history for the 79th N.Y. mentions doing that. Not in the manuals, but indeed done.