Turned away because of uniform??

[Guy Gane III]

(I am by no means harping on Fort Niagara and all the great things that are there to see. This is NOT a flame-starter. These are valid questions I have, with some backround.)

Today, in Niagara Falls, it was 70 degrees outside and not a cloud in the sky. Just the type of weather to head over to your favorite, local, historical park and enjoy the day. Perhaps take pictures.

Well after thoroughly enjoying the visitor's center and the movie, I ran out to my car and put my traps on and grabbed my OG Enfield - I was in uniform already after having been at the Amherst Museum this morning.

I walked back into the visitor's center and made my way to the door and decended to the "Gate of the Five Nations" and was stopped by, what I presumed to be a reenactor. After all he was in uniform.

He said he wanted to stop me and let me know that he "can't let you in here (pause) in that uniform."

I asked why, ( since the Fort was garrisoned by Federal troops during the WBTS), would my uniform prohibit me from entering. He reasoned, "I don't want it to distract my presentation" - to a group of about 30 Boy Scouts and their Scout Masters. I explained that "My uniform has as much significance as yours does".

He insisted that I leave the Fort!

I paid to get in! So I asked for a refund of which he said he would "call up" to the visitor's center and which I did get.

My question is this... Why? Why would I be denied entrance into a New York State Park (Its not an NPS site)? Why would a fellow 'reenactor' be so threatened to cause him to ask me to leave before I even entered the park? I didn't even talk to anyone before I walked up to the gate.

What if I was Native American or African American?

By the way... it was supposed to be "Patriot's Day" at the museum. Very patriotic. :angry_smi

[unionprivate]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

Ya know, I feel threatened by you too. Just dont make a fuss is all. ;)

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

You should have asked permission from the folks in charge first, for a number of reasons.

1. At some parks, the rangers wear period clothing; they may have wanted to avoid the confusion.

2. If they do not know you, they are unsure of your motivations. I would be suspicious if someone showed up at a park where I worked to do an impromptu living history event without advance notice, especially if they brought a firearm. For all they know, you could have been a perv trolling for scouts. (I've seen one do that before!)

3. It's just plain uncool to drop in unannounced and do living history without clearing it with the park first; it leads to situations such as yours.

[wilber6150]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

What era was the presentation he was doing, if it was Rev war or F-n-I then I could see how a Civil war uniform could throw off and be a distraction to his sanctioned presentation..

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

It was a Rev War demo.

Still, would it be right if I turned someone away from an event or even a State park just because he wasn't dressed in the era I was portraying?

I was just going there to get pictures of myself and it didn't even cross my mind to listen to this presentation.

It was more embarrassing because I was there with my girlfriend. What a slap in the face. What happened was disrespectful. To me and to the Union uniform I was wearing.

Its a Fort that I PAID to get into. I didn't hear anyone complaining when I was paying for our tickets.

I am planning on having a sit-down with the park's directors.

[Amtmann]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

I've never understood why reenactors feel they have to wear their uniforms to historic sites as spectators.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

Some sites have a "no unauthorized costuming" rule, because visitors assume that anyone dressed in costume is an official representative of the site, either volunteer or paid, and thus their behavior is approved by and controlled by the site. If the person gives out historic misinformation, fails to be helpful in pointing out the bathrooms or the drinking fountains, or heaven forbid is rude to visitors, the site gets blamed, even though it's not their fault. The simplest way to prevent that problem is to ban all costuming.

Might be interesting to contact the fort and ask if that is indeed the policy, or if the individual reenactor was taking it on himself to make up a policy, but since he got you a refund, it sounds like the fort backed him and he was following policy.

It does sound like they need to get their act together and enforce it consistently, at the time of ticket purchase.

If it's policy, the fact that they asked you to leave at least shows they aren't discriminating on the basis of race, if the next person asked to leave is Native American or African American.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[garyjd]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

I am planning on having a sit-down with the park's directors.

If it were me I might have at that point asked to speak with whoever was in authority there if I were so offended. Did you explain that all you wanted was to get some pictures of yourself? I'm curious if you might have recieved the same treatment if you were uniformed as a member of the 8th Regiment of Foot? I hope your talk clears the matter up for you.~Gary

[coastaltrash]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

I've got to agree with David and Rick on this one. Showing up with a gun and in uniform unannounced is really not a good idea, and some what rude to the park and the ranger who makes a living by explaining the history.

Did you perhaps attempt to explain why you were there, or offer to change as soon as the picture was taken? Also you say:

"Still, would it be right if I turned someone away from an event or even a State park just because he wasn't dressed in the era I was portraying?"

I've done it before, it's part of having events with Guidelines.

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

Yes, I did clearly explain that I was there for my own benefit, to take pictures, enjoy the beautiful day and if someone were to come up to me asking something about the fort that I would refer them to someone 'official'.

There was no signage explaining any type of uniform code, nor was I made aware of such rules. (That would fall into the responsibility of the V.C. to state that 'unauthorized uniforms' wouldn't be allowed.

What if I had travelled several hours and was denied? Granted, I live about 25 minutes away, but still.

Plain and simple, no class was shown. I didn't instigate anything, I didn't heckle or talk over a presentation. If anything I would have been more interested to listen and learn.

For the person who said he didn't understand showing up in uniform... I was already in uniform, was NOT about to drive out of my way to go home to change and I went because I felt like it...As stated above, it was used during the CW. Also, I didn't expect to be treated in such a manner.

[Justin Runyon]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

I make it a rule not to show up to sites in uniform unless Im working with/for that site at the time. I understand, from the inside, that the park officials have a certain vision for interpretation at their particular site and spend a fair amount of time making sure that vision is acomplished. It is their job after all. Better to have changed after you got done working with the other museum that morning. Don't get any undergarments in a twist over it, I think Niagra was fair in this one.

Oh, we did throw a couple out of an event at Shaker Village a couple of years ago that had just stopped by. We were doing a KY militia event set before the war even started and this guy, and his farby Barbie wife ,came out in full CS regalia. I'm not saying that your kit is anywhere near that guys (accuracy wise), but it may have been equally out of place and potentially confusing to the spectators.

[coastaltrash]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

You know, I do things at Vicksburg on a regular basis now and I don't think I have even walked into the VC in my uniform. I keep whatever I'm talking about back at the interpretive site and leave the rangers to do with their park what they want. David is in charge of the programs through the summer and I personally don't intend to show up in uniform or even comment that I know anything about the siege. Some people show up at that park in particular to show off, and a lot of the times it's fun to prove them wrong and show them a book stating that they are wrong.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

I went to Shiloh a few years ago with a buddy to map the route of the Sixth Ohio during the battle, follow it and record it with a camera. We brought our uniforms in case we wanted to get some photos in them, but they weren't absolutely necessary.

Before doing anything, we went in to the Rangers (especially before donning the blue) and asked them for permission to wear the uniforms without any firearms. We then sat down with them to go over some maps to determine the route of the Sixth on the second day. By the end of the conversation, they told us it would be fine as long as we didn't carry our weapons (which we hadn't brought with us anyway).

As we hit the markers, we took photos with some of the tourists and some Boy Scouts who were there for a visit.

The last thing that we did before leaving was to check back with the rangers and thank them for allowing us the privilege.

We did the exact same thing at Chickamauga later that year with the same result. My rule - It is their park and their rules. Courtesy, tact, and historical research got us the permission that we needed. My humble advice is that the sit-down probably should have occurred on the front end. And as some are fond of saying, your mileage may vary...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

Hallo!

IMHO...

1. Sites may be "sensitive" to the uncontrolled "mix messages" a non-staff, volunteer, etc., that a "costumed" gate paying spectator might visually or verbally give to "tourists" as they cannot control the uniform, gear, history, or person-to-person interaction. Nor would they want the hassle of "jurying" "costumed foks" showing up and quarreling at the gate between who was "spot on," "good enough," or atrocious circus clowns.

2. Again in IMHO, while "Fort Niagara" is probably "closer" to its post Civil War era actual appearance with the 1840ish red brick casement and water batteries- it typically presents itself as its French & Indian War or Revolutionary War era "fort." A lad in Civil War blue might confuse tourists.... ;) :(

Curt

In different eras when I had wanted pictures, I also asked for permission (which always led to an "interview" and "inspection." The problem I ever encountered was at Appomattox Court House where they objected to Confederate enlisted men with arms as it was not in line with their "after the surrender" message. We could come in "dressed," but just not with arms and accoutrements.

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Turned away because of uniform??

For the record, I welcome participation by reenactors, so long as they notify us in advance, and agree to follow our safety, equipment, and uniform rules. If any of you guys are passing through this summer and want to spend a day or two with our artillery crew, then by all means, contact me.