Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

[Frank J. Aube]

Does anyone know if there was a regulation as to the placement of the US Shield on catridge boxes... I know the leaded back shield was used as a billeted weight so that the flap would fall back after removing the cartridge thus sealing the box from the elements as well as the sparks from the dischage of other weapons.

To the best of my knowledge 1864 began the introduction of some US Cartridge Boxes that were stamped with the US shield into the leather.
Was there ordinance regulations as to were this stamp should be that anyones knows of?

I am trying to place a brass US shield on a 1839 pattern .69 caliber from what I can tell most approved sutlers place the bottomo the oval shield about an inch above the stitching for the inside flap that fastens to the finial and dead center in middle form both sides.

I guess the question is how far up from the stitching should the bottom of the oval be 1/4" 1/2" 2/4" 1 inch ?

Any advice, experience, research info. would be greatly appreciated

Sincerley

Frank J. Aube

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

I had had "learned it" as being in the "visual center" of the box...

HOWEVER, in examining originals and photographs of original P1839, P1857, and
P1861 cartridges boxes, I have encountered a very few that were actually centered.
The Ordnance Manual is silent on the matter, saying... "...for fastening the plate to the flap of the box.'

IMHO, and observation, NUG, the plate's top is about a wee tad above "halfway" or so down the flap- or often the top of the "U.S." letters is half way.
HOWEVER, considering how the plates were affixed, different lads put them in ever so slightly different "variations on a theme."

I would look to originals, and pick one that strikes your fancy or eye... ;)

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Frank J. Aube]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Thank You "High Private" for the sound advice !!!!!!

I was chatting with Butch Myers yesterday and he stated each one he affixes is done with consideration given to the weight of the lead shield and the weight and thickness of the leather used on the flap.

The consideration given to both is to utilize the billeted weight so that it may close the box properly after one has removed the cartridge... However, he stated that he uses the eyeball approach as well.

Frank J. Aube

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Look at the EJ Thomas website, their (excellent) reproduction is copied from an original that they have in hand. If you visit them in person at an event, you can see exactly where the box plate is placed (they have two).

On my own personal EJT US 1839 "Boyd & Sons" cartridge box, as well as the one donated to the Watchdog to raffle off for battlefield preservation, the bottom of the box plate is about one inch above the stitching for the tab. If functions almost perfectly that way.

[Frank J. Aube]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Craig,

Thank you for the advice... One inch above the stitching for the closure flap is just about where I have determined it should be placed... Someone had mentioned to me that there was a reference in an ordinance manual as to the placement of these... I should have dug a little deeper at the time to find out exactly where that reference is locted.

Thanks again for Chiming in, anad I will give EJ Thomas a shout or see if I can track him down at an event... I am fairly certain that thry are coming to en event near me in August 07 but not completely certain of it

Thanks Again

Frank J. Aube

[roundshot]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Hi Frank: Are you still looking for a M1842?

[Frank J. Aube]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Hey Bubba, what are you doin here in the sinks, did you get yourself all muddied up campaining again.

What's it look like ? You hardcore Champaigner you !!!!!!

I have a defarbed 1842 Harpers Ferry .69 Caliber Rifled... I am just looking for some sound documnentation on where to place the US on my 69 Box

Can you help ?

Your humble servant

Pvt. Frank J. Aube

[roundshot]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

Yo Frank: As the man says, in the "visual center of the box." But look at original photos, they're all over the place. In other words, you'd have to work hard to do it wrong. Don't overthink it . . . just put the damn thing on. And it's not a "shield," it's a cartridge box plate. Here's my own 1839 box as an example (and you KNOW it's right!). Hope to see you at September Storm!

[Frank J. Aube]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

You are correct sir, grind that nomenclature right into to me :)

Cartridge box plate !!!! Yes I knew that, I guess I was focusing on the fastidious placement of the cartridge box plate as oppossed to the correct terminology... Thanks for the good advice (as always) and the picture I do appreciate it.

It appears to be 3/4 of an inch above the stitching !!!! precisely were I was going to place it !!!!!

Will you be bringing the "rolling thunder" to September Storm? or going as a "High Private"?

I did "Summer of 62" 2 years back on this ground and it was the best event I have ever been to... Great impressions on the majority of everyone that was there. The Saturday evening battle was an absolute blast !!!!!!

Hopefully, this will be a repeat performance.

Sincerely,

Frank J. Aube

[Bummer]

Re: Placement of US Shield on 1839 .69 Caliber Cartridge Box

There was a whole thread on this very thing--and it went into great detail as to HOW they were affixed too (leather, wood, wire, nails, etc.) but I tried the search feature and it is not findable. I remember posting on it myself so I looked under 'my posts' and it still is not available.
The reason I bring this up is that so often someone will ask a question only to have folks yell at him to use the search engine...well sometimes it doesn't work.