Announcement

**JimKindred** · 07-04-2007, 12:38 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Tom,

Classifying BP as an explosive is nothing new, it has been classified that way for many years by BATF.

I believe what you are referring to is OSHA proposing a regulatory rule affecting the manufacturing, transportation and storage of small arms ammunition, primers and smokeless propellants. This alert was put out by the NSSF 2 Jul 07 - http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?...R=BP070207.cfm

Jim Kindred
Class 1 FFL

***csuniforms*** · 07-04-2007, 01:05 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Hello, You got it... This could be a very serious blow to the hobby.

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms
NSSA, NRA, and Living History Lover...

**Curt Schmidt** · 07-04-2007, 02:31 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

I was talking with one of this state's two remaining BP commercial sellers-

"They said" it would require carriers such as FEDEX and UPS to modify their delivery trucks to have a "vault" and be a "non-sparking" environment as well.
"They said" it is unlikely companies would be willing to modify their fleet in such a way.
This would eliminate black powder deliveries to local suppliers/shops.

With that and the other "delivery/deliverer" regulations, Black Powder would not be BANNED, it would potentially just cease to be shipped or delivered by these common carriers. Vendors who deal with them, and have no other recourse would cease having BP to sell.
Not BANNING Black Powder, just regulating it to extinction for many of these suppliers.

Up until; July 12, 2007, "impact" statements and other public opinions can post comments to the proposed regulations to OSHA itself at:

Regulations.gov

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main

Enter OSHA-2007-0032 as the docket number in #4, then select exact phrase/comments and submit.

Curt
Opposed to legislation-making by regulation-passing, and opposed to yelling "Bang!"

**Michael Comer** · 07-04-2007, 04:32 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Made my comments, wrote my Representative and both my Senators.

**Johnny Lloyd** · 07-04-2007, 05:13 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Guess we'll have to REALLY get authentic and make our own black powder... Johnny Reb

PS- I've heard all of the restrictions that were "about to come down on us" regarding this matter before in years past (especially after 9/11... remember?). My question is how can we be sure that this will be the dreaded law(s) we have all been fearing that could end our hobby or at least severely damage it? Just a thought...

**JimKindred** · 07-04-2007, 05:34 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Originally posted by Johnny Lloyd View Post

My question is how can we be sure that this will be the dreaded law(s) we have all been fearing that could end our hobby or at least severely damage it? Just a thought...

You cannot be sure this is not the one that will which is why you need to treat it like it is and contact your representatives in Congress.

**HighPrvt** · 07-04-2007, 06:13 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Should we contact our reps? Certainly we should.
However we are just a drop in a swimming pool compared to BP shooters, and reloaders. The NRA will tear this apart.

**Curt Schmidt** · 07-04-2007, 06:24 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Hallo!

From the NRA:

Proposed �Safety� Regulations Would Dry Up Ammunition Sales

Tuesday, July 03, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has proposed new rules that would have a dramatic effect on the storage and transportation of ammunition and handloading components such as primers or black and smokeless powder. The proposed rule indiscriminately treats ammunition, powder and primers as �explosives.� Among many other provisions, the proposed rule would:
� Prohibit possession of firearms in commercial �facilities containing explosives��an obvious problem for your local gun store.
� Prohibit delivery drivers from leaving explosives unattended�which would make it impossible for delivery services such as UPS to deliver ammunition or gun powder.
� Require evacuation of all �facilities containing explosives��even your local Wal-Mart�during any electrical storm.
� Prohibit smoking within 50 feet of �facilities containing explosives.�
It�s important to remember this is only a proposed rule right now, so there�s still time for concerned citizens to speak out before OSHA issues its final rule. The National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers� Association will all be commenting on these proposed regulations, based on the severe effect these regulations (if finalized) would have on the availability of ammunition and reloading supplies to safe and responsible shooters.
The public comment period ends July 12. To file your own comment, or to learn more about the OSHA proposal, go to http://www.regulations.gov and search for Docket Number OSHA-2007-0032�; you can read OSHA�s proposal and learn how to submit comments electronically, or by fax or mail.
-----------------------------

OSHA Docket Office Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625 200 Constitution Ave., N.W. Washington, DC 20210 Re.: Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032 (Explosives�Proposed Rule)
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing in strong opposition to OSHA�s proposed rules on �explosives,� which go far beyond regulating true explosives. These proposed rules would impose severe restrictions on the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition�both complete cartridges and handloading components such as black and smokeless powder, primers, and percussion caps. These restrictions go far beyond existing transportation and fire protection regulations.
As a person who uses ammunition and components, I am very concerned that these regulations will have a serious effect on my ability to obtain these products. OSHA�s proposed rules would impose restrictions that very few gun stores, sporting goods stores, or ammunition dealers could comply with. (Prohibiting firearms in stores that sell ammunition, for example, is absurd�but would be required under the proposed rule.)
The proposed transportation regulations would also affect shooters� ability to buy these components by mail or online, because shipping companies would also have great difficulty complying with the proposed rules. For instance, the rules against leaving any vehicle containing �explosives� unattended would make it impossible for companies such as United Parcel Service to deliver ammunition to businesses or consumers without massive changes in their operations (such as putting a second driver on any truck that might happen to deliver a case of shotgun shells).
There is absolutely no evidence of any new safety hazard from storage or transportation of small arms ammunition or components that would justify these new rules. I also understand that organizations with expertise in this field, such as the National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers� Association, will be submitting detailed comments on this issue. I hope OSHA will listen to these organizations� comments as the agency develops a final rule on this issue.
Sincerely,

Curt

**Curt Schmidt** · 07-04-2007, 06:25 PM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Hallo!

Lads who have been trying to send comments have been blocked by an OSHA "gatekeeper" called a "Docket Manager" who screens them and then passes them through.

Comments from June 28, 2007 are just now appearing.

Detailed Description of Request:
Entered on 07/03/2007 at 17:33:09 by Lon D:
Mr. Kirk,
Comments are not posted automatically. The docket manager will review the comments before posting them. Each agency has its own timeframe for posting comments (e.g., 2 days, 4 days, 1 week, etc.). Did you receive a message that your comment had been sent?
Lon
Regulations.gov Helpdesk
1-877-378-5457

Curt

**Charles Heath** · 07-05-2007, 08:10 AM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

For transportation purposes, the black powder commodities are listed as "flammable solids," which is how and why they have been an item UPS and others have been able to deliver to your door. While Jim is correct, OSHA's MSDS classifications and BATF's happy little world are two different birds.

If we were paying $50 per pound, it could only improve the hobby, as the emphasis in some quarters may move from burning powder to history, and it may serve to eliminate much of the excess artillery. Just a silver lining kind of thought for the day.

**JimKindred** · 07-05-2007, 08:27 AM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Originally posted by Charles Heath View Post

If we were paying $50 per pound, it could only improve the hobby, as the emphasis in some quarters may move from burning powder to history, and it may serve to eliminate much of the excess artillery. Just a silver lining kind of thought for the day.

Not much of a silver lining when you consider if this passes it shuts down all shooting sports not just powder burners in this hobby.

**Charles Heath** · 07-05-2007, 09:17 AM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Jim,

About every three or four months we seem to have a bona fide Chicken Little moment in the hobby whether it is the cessation of percussion cap importation, the serial number shuffle, or our mother hen guv'mint in Dee Cee deciding anything mounting a bayonet is a dangerous assault weapon capable of bringing down empires. Such wisdom makes it easier to buy crack on the corner than it is to buy cough syrup at the pharmacy or lye at the supermarket. Oy!

***Gallo de Cielo*** · 07-05-2007, 09:29 AM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

I have contacted my representative and senators and visited the site Curt was kind enough to provide the link for.

It is hard enough to find blackpowder even now. Having that threatened with further restriction seems to make this an issue we should all take the 15 minutes needed to contact our elected officials and file our thoughts through the Regulations.gov website.

If you need pointers on finding your reps and senators, just google "finding my senator" and "finding my representatives." You'll be able to contact both electronically if you prefer or find phone numbers.

As an aside, Powder Inc is based here in Arkansas, about an hour west of me. Located as closely as they are, it's tough to find blackpowder at much less than $20 a can, due to the hazardous shipping rates UPS and FedEx charge gunshops.

Clearly we will all need to get proactive about this and even then it will be an uphill fight.

My two cents,

**Tom Ezell** · 07-05-2007, 09:43 AM

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

What Fred said...

Only one place in Little Rock currently sells black powder, at $19.95 per can with a 9.5% sales tax added on top of that. All other "sporting goods" venues offer only Pyrodex (TM) or the various other black powder substitutes that won't fire without some sort of compression over the charge.

Having Powder, Inc. sort of local (they're an hour-and-a-half up I-40 near Clarksville) has made it easier for local reenacting groups to go in on bulk buys on powder, we'll have to look and see what the shipping charges are going to do. Several of our group are also active members in the state muzzleloading shooting club, and have been able to take advantage of that to get good (e.g., Goex) powder at decent prices.

Me, I just last summer shot off the last of the blanks I had rolled for Wilson's Creek way back in the spring of 2000... Sounds like it's time to stock up on FFFg while the gettin's still good...