OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Hallo!

IF...
For blackpowder, if the common carrier such as UPS or FEDEX does not choose to pay for:

1. instaling safety "vaults" in their trucks
2. remodeling the delivery truck interiors to not have any exposed "sparking metal"
3. adding a second man to physically deliver the black-powder because the driver would be barred from leaving the vehicle (for deliveries, meals, or toilet breaks, etc.,)

they cannot ship/deliver BP.

Stores and businesses that rely on UPS or FEDEX for their shipments of BP would not be able to receive it to sell across the counter.

( Storage requirements for stores and businesses is another part of the proposed changes.)

Per one of the two remaining suppliers of blackpowder in this state.

Curt

[JimKindred]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

That's that bump in the supply chain I was referring to in an earlier post. If the retailer can't get powder or ammunition shipped to them, it pretty much puts it out of reach for the end user.

[ACo.]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

"... it pretty much puts it out of reach for the end user."

Curt and Jim have said it right. The least problem to the user will be that of the large end users (mining, highway construction, etc.) who need large quantities delivered directly to them, they will be able to find a way to afford the extra shipping and handling expenses that the shippers will NEED to charge for their modifications and extra personnel. The small users who want one pound of black or smokeless powder, 100 percussion caps or primers, etc. will be out of luck since the small supplier (local sporting goods stores) will not be able to afford or pass on those extra costs. Time for the fence sitting ( :baring_te ) to stop.

[Dreamer42]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Having taken the time to read each post I feel that I am pretty much in agreement that something does need to be done. I plan on writing my representative tomorrow - thanks Kurt.
I also have learned to make an attempt to see the big picture. To me, if it smells like gun control, looks like gun control and walks like gun control, then...
Do you remember a few years ago Congress was looking at a bill that would count each cartridge primer as a "cartridge" and they wanted to limit how many "cartridges" you could own, and how many guns you could buy each month? Luckily the NRA was out there fighting for us. (Raise your hand if you're a member of the NRA...if you're not, then shame on you!)
I don't feel I am too far off the mark in saying that this is nothing more than an unelected agency doing an end-run around constitutional procedure to put a stop to private firearms ownership. True, the new restrictions may very well be aimed at large commercial users of explosives, but if very strict guidelines and limitations on the application of this...proposal...are not guarded, it would be very easy to let it slip into the realm of being misconstrued as law for private users by the law enforcement community.
These attacks - be they full-frontal assaults or back door sneek-attacks will be something we will always have to deal with.

- Jay Reid
9th Texas/165th NY
Banks Grand Retreat '07 - "whew!"
Franklin, TN '04 - "tasty water"

[Csayankee]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Well, We can see that even the folks whose job is "SAFETY" -- are unsure of the exact way it could effect the sale and distribution of black powder on retail outlets. Big shipments for mining or construction sites for blasting I understand fully the need for safety big time in the transportation and storage of large quantities of black powder. The little guy and the small shipments how will these be curtailed?? That is the question now.

CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas

No I see the effect this will have local, or small retail sales. Which is way I stated more then once that we need to push for OSHA and the ATF to ensure the standard gives a clear definition and exceptions for small quanity black powder etc. My main point was that it will effect local people, but the main purpose to the standard was focused on the large scale industry needs.

If OSHA and ATF agree and make exceptions for small quanity then we can remove the agruement of gun control and 2nd Amendment issues. I think we all agree that this would be a good standard for the large quanity industry, and if you look at the standard, both the current and proposed you will see that is mainly talking about them not the little guy.

I spoke to my rep this weekend, in person and he will look into it more. He agreed that they need to define and make exceptions for small quanity retailers. And that he believes they are not thinking about the little guy. But on the other hand he is from a part of the state with coal and gravel mines and they use explosives on a regular basis. Many of the pits and mines like the proposed standard, specially after the accidents last year and this year in mines.

So I am pushing my reps for exceptions for small quanity retailers but not to kill the standard all together.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Just placed a call to Maine Powder House for a case of (Schuetzen) BP, and in speaking with them the OSHA regs will have a greater impact than just an adverse effect on retailers. As MPH put it, "Where do you think I get my powder?" It would impact wholesalers, too. In other words, it would be more complicated for Tom Ezell than driving 1.5 hrs to Little Rock to visit Powder, Inc every few years for a case. The wholesalers will have the same problem in effect as they would have to buy BP from the manufacturer shipped in the form of a semi-tractor trailer load, which is more than most of them can afford (a couple hundred thousand dollars).

Not sure of the math on all this, but if what MPH was claiming proves true, not many of the current wholesalers will be able to afford to sell BP anymore...and so on down the line.

[Michael Comer]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

I spoke in person with a representative of one of my US senators this morning about this issue. He was not aware of it. I imagine he's not the only one. We need to get the word out and there are only 3 days left on the public comment period on the OSHA site.

[JimKindred]

Re: OSHA Extends deadline for public comments

From the NSSF website -

Proposed OSHA Regulation Threatens
Firearm and Ammunition Industry

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the government agency charged with assuring the safety and health of America's workers, is proposing a regulatory rule affecting the manufacturing, transportation and storage of small arms ammunition, primers and smokeless propellants.

As written, the proposed rule would force the closure of nearly all ammunition manufacturers and force the cost of small arms ammunition to skyrocket beyond what the market could bear—essentially collapsing our industry. This is not an exaggeration. The cost to comply with the proposed rule for the ammunition industry, including manufacturer, wholesale distributors and retailers, will be massive and easily exceed $100 million. For example, ammunition and smokeless propellant manufacturers would have to shut down and evacuate a factory when a thunderstorm approached and customers would not be allowed within 50 feet of any ammunition (displayed or otherwise stored) without first being searched for matches or lighters.

Full Story here -

http://www.nssf.org/news/PR_idx.cfm?PRloc=common/PR/&PR=BP070207.cfm

[Curt Schmidt]

Thank you for your efforts! OSHA Extension

from the NRA site: http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...id=3151&issue=


OHSA Grants 60 day extension on Proposed "Safety" Rule That Would Address Ammunition Sales

Monday, July 09, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has extended the comment period on its proposed rule for 60 days until September 10. The proposed new rules would have a dramatic effect on the storage and transportation of ammunition and handloading components such as primers or black and smokeless powder. The proposed rule indiscriminately treats ammunition, powder and primers as “explosives.” Among many other provisions, the proposed rule would:
Prohibit possession of firearms in commercial “facilities containing explosives”—an obvious problem for your local gun store.
Require evacuation of all “facilities containing explosives”—even your local Wal-Mart—during any electrical storm.
Prohibit smoking within 50 feet of “facilities containing explosives.”
It’s important to remember this is only a proposed rule right now, so there’s still time for concerned citizens to speak out before OSHA issues its final rule. The National Rifle Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation, and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute will all be commenting on these proposed regulations, based on the severe effect these regulations (if finalized) would have on the availability of ammunition and reloading supplies to safe and responsible shooters.

The public comment period was originally scheduled to end July 12 but has been extended sixty (60) days until September 10, 2007. To read the OSHA proposal click here (PDF file).

According to OSHA, you may submit comments, identified by Docket No. OSHA-2007- 0032, by any of the following methods:

Electronically: You may submit comments and attachments electronically at http://www.regulations.gov, which is the Federal eRulemaking Portal. Follow the instructions on-line for making electronic submissions.
Fax: If your comments, including attachments, do not exceed 10 pages, you may fax them to the OSHA Docket Office at (202) 693-1648.
Mail, hand delivery, express mail, messenger or courier service: You must submit three copies of your comments and attachments to:
OSHA Docket Office, Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032
U.S. Department of Labor, Room N-2625
200 Constitution Avenue, NW.
Washington, DC 20210
telephone (202) 693-2350 (OSHA"s TTY number is (877) 889-5627).
Instructions: All submissions must include the Agency name and the docket number for this rulemaking (Docket No. OSHA-2007-0032). All comments, including any personal information you provide, are placed in the public docket without change and may be made available online at http://www.regulations.gov. Therefore, OSHA cautions you about submitting personal information such as social security numbers and birthdates.

For further information on submitting comments, plus additional information on the rulemaking process, see the SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION section of the OSHA proposal.


Curt

[HighPrvt]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

They've extended the comment period until September. Looks like the heat is coming down on somebody.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

The guys in the white hats from the NRA and NSSF are on it. That would be my take on the 60 day extension to the "comment period". Either that or OSHA got conscience from all the "comments" from here and elsewhere and it raised an alarm someplace. Sort of doubt that...

Still procuring and dividing up a case with some of my more far-sighted comrades in order to have a few lbs of BP in reserve. What the heck, it never goes down in price anyway. This is probably a good wake-up call. You can't take anything for granted.

[JimKindred]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Update -

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3164

[Texyank]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Jim,
Thanks for the update.

All along this sounded like a solution in search of a problem.

Already called my reps/senators. Will do it again!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: OSHA Temporarily Retreats

Labor Department Announces It Will Revise Overreaching OSHA Explosives
Rule

Monday, July 16, 2007

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) announced it
will significantly revise a recent proposal for new "explosives
safety" regulations that caused serious concern among gun owners.
OSHA had originally set out to update workplace safety regulations,
but the proposed rules included restrictions that very few gun shops,
sporting goods stores, shippers, or ammunition dealers could comply with.

Gun owners had filed a blizzard of negative comments urged by the NRA,
and just a week ago, OSHA had already issued one extension for its
public comment period at the request of the National Shooting Sports
Foundation. After continued publicity through NRA alerts and the
outdoor media, and after dozens of Members of Congress expressed
concern about its impact, OSHA has wisely decided to go back to the
drawing board.

Working with the NRA, Congressman Denny Rehberg (R-MT) planned to
offer a floor amendment to the Labor-HHS appropriations bill this
Wednesday when the House considers this legislation. His amendment
would have prohibited federal funds from being used to enforce this
OSHA regulation.

Such an amendment is no longer necessary since Kristine A. Iverson,
the Labor Department's Assistant Secretary for Congressional and
Intergovernmental Affairs, sent Rep. Rehberg a letter, dated July 16,
stating that it "was never the intention of OSHA to block the sale,
transportation, or storage of small arms ammunition, and OSHA is
taking prompt action to revise" this proposed rule to clarify the
purpose of the regulation.

Also, working with the NRA, Congressman Doug Lamborn (R-CO) gathered
signatures from 25 House colleagues for a letter, dated July 11,
expressing concerns about this proposed OSHA rule. The letter calling
the proposal "an undue burden on a single industry where facts do not
support the need outlined by this proposed rule" and "not feasible,
making it realistically impossible for companies to comply with its
tenets."

The OSHA proposal would have defined "explosives" to include "black
powder, … small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition primers, [and]
smokeless propellant," and treated these items the same as the most
volatile high explosives.

Under the proposed rule, a workplace that contained even a handful of
small arms cartridges, for any reason, would have been considered a
"facility containing explosives" and therefore subject to many
impractical restrictions. For example, no one could carry "firearms,
ammunition, or similar articles in facilities containing explosives …
except as required for work duties." Obviously, this rule would make
it impossible to operate any kind of gun store, firing range, or
gunsmith shop.

The public comment website for the proposed rule is no longer
accessible. The Labor Department will publish a notice in the July 17
Federal Register announcing that a new rule proposal will soon be
drafted for public comment. Needless to say, the NRA monitors proposed
federal regulations to head off this kind of overreach, and will be
alert for OSHA's next draft.

Read more about it at http://www.nraila.org/images/osha.pdf


Thanks to all of those who perceived this as a threat and acted.
This battle in the War goes to... us.

Curt

[paulcalloway]

Re: OSHA Threatens Civil War Hobby- Serious

Now that right there qualifies as good news.