Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

[RJSamp]

Would someone please point me to the 1861/2 manual paragraph that states you can't walk through the stacks? Thanks.

I know that their should be a guard (of 3?) posted on the line to watch over the muskets and color(s).....

[KCLoewe]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

RJ,
I've looked for this in the past and from everything I've been able to gather there is nothing about walking through stacks. I'm of the belief it is a modern "reeanctorism"

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I suspect there's no specific prohibition because it's simply common sense. If you do it correctly, there should be less than a foot between each individual stack, and no captain aware of his responsibilities would want his boys skipping between $80 collections of accountable property.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I was called down once many years ago for "walking through the stacks" even though the musket stacks were plenty wide apart to permit easy passage between them. Being new to the hobby at the time, I questioned it and was chastised for not knowing the "regulations". I researched it as it was curious enough to warrant a search for this "regulation" but could never find it addressed. I attributed it to that particular unit commander.

I believe it is one of the "unwritten rules" widely accepted as regulation, as in "if it isn't an actual regulation it should be" and at the discretion of the officer in command. Not walking through the stacks makes some sense as it does not take a vivid imagination to foresee a clumsy person starting a chain reaction of knocked over musket stacks, but who knows? Figured it was like John Wayne in the Horse Soldiers (film) where he tells his men to dig the latrines down stream so "the coffee will taste better". More of an officers discretionary order that is based on common sense.

[RJSamp]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Maybe it's in Kautz....which I've always thought of as a compiltation of Actual and Best Practices as opposed to what's the 'letter' of the Regs.....

Any quotes anywhere from the newbies home.....i.e. my Sergeant admonished me for walking through the rifle line and I had to carry a post for 4 hours around the entire regiments rifle stacks.....

If not, then I'd chalk this up as a reenactorism....something that's not authentic....and something that needs to be dismissed from our cph and mainstream impressions.

[RJSamp]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I suspect there's no specific prohibition because it's simply common sense. If you do it correctly, there should be less than a foot between each individual stack, and no captain aware of his responsibilities would want his boys skipping between $80 collections of accountable property.

Not good enough Mike....plenty of common sense items are spelled out in the regs. Where's the admonishment for skipping through the tents, for example (and those contained valuable accountable property)? And as big as I am, I can pass through a 12" gap in the stacks, at night, barefoot, without knocking them over.... and how about the gap where the Captain and covering Sergeant were (Sergeant puts his file in the stack to his left as a leaner, correct?)? Why can't you walk through there???

Is it the Captain's responsibility to ensure that the rifles weren't knocked over? Or is it the 'color' line guard? Does the clerk take over if the Captain's are at an Officer's Call?

Do you have a quote to back up your guess?

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

RJ, I've enjoyed your knowledgeable and informative posts, but I tend to disagree with you on this one.

It may indeed be a reenactorism to claim that walking through the stacks comes from the Regs. I don't have any problem with that conclusion. But given the cost and importance of the property, and the paperwork involved if someone trips over a weapon and damages it or themselves, I think it would be quite authentic for a first sergeant or officer in command to ban the practice. I would if I were a Captain.

I'm not sure what you mean by a quote -- the responsibilities for accounting for Ordnance, including the officer in command's personal liability, are laid out in the OD's "Instructions for Making Quarterly Returns of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores," (GPO, 1863 -- available from most sutlers). A present day discussion, along with sample costs of materiel, is at http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ead.php?t=9874

Beyond that, I'd hate to see someone trying to prove their cph credentials by stepping through the stacks and arguing with whoever calls them on it. I mean, don't you just know that there are enough gormless people cruising this site who would do just that? It would provide one more cheap way for people to 'prove' their authenticity without instead spending the time on something truly useful, like drill, or penmanship, or -- God forbid -- learning what all those bugle calls are for.

And congratulations on your personal sense of balance, but I'd never trust myself that much, especially heading out to the sinks in the middle of the night. For God's sake, man, at least put your brogans on. :D

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I had always thought that officers in command or a unit were allowed to issue orders to their men on many aspects of the soldier's life. For example, certain army commanders, from time to time, issued orders banning alcohol from the army's camps, even though one may find that prohibition in the Articles of War, those officers still thought it necessary and appropriate to issue circulars banning the stuff.

Thus, a company commander certainly has authority to ban his men from walking through the stacks, and a battalion commander can certainly disallow anyone from walking through the stacks of his command.

Whether this particular minutia (walking through stacks) is memorialized in a period handbook isn't my point. Rather, it's that officers have the authority to issue orders over their men.

[wmkane]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Thus, a company commander certainly has authority to ban his men from walking through the stacks, and a battalion commander can certainly disallow anyone from walking through the stacks of his command.

Thank you Kevin! I was thinking the exact same thing. Standing orders, or general orders did exist. I'm not sure if this is the case, or if it is just so much common sense; afterall, they don't go over how to pack a knapsack, write a letter, or negotiate a price from a sutler in the mauals either.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I think Kevin O'Beirne hit the nail on the head here, too. This much is clear, don't invest a great deal of time looking for this particular order in any manual.

[DougCooper]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I had always thought that officers in command or a unit were allowed to issue orders to their men on many aspects of the soldier's life. For example, certain army commanders, from time to time, issued orders banning alcohol from the army's camps, even though one may find that prohibition in the Articles of War, those officers still thought it necessary and appropriate to issue circulars banning the stuff.

Thus, a company commander certainly has authority to ban his men from walking through the stacks, and a battalion commander can certainly disallow anyone from walking through the stacks of his command.

Whether this particular minutia (walking through stacks) is memorialized in a period handbook isn't my point. Rather, it's that officers have the authority to issue orders over their men.

Exactly. If commanders were limited to what it says in the book, it would be very hard to be an effective commander. This is a common sense, good order and discipline, protect army property, safety move by any commander.

I once dressed down a farb cavalrymen for trying to RIDE through the stacks and he acted like I had insulted his mother and demanded to know what reg I was quoting.

All I could think of to say at the time was: "Because I said so...and thought it prudent to protect you from the wrath of 30 soldiers who would no doubt use their damaged weapons on you and the horse...

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

"Because I said so...and thought it prudent to protect you from the wrath of 30 soldiers who would no doubt use their damaged weapons on you and the horse...

Not the horse just the nut loose behind the reigns.

So it boils down to, not a reg but an officier's discretion.

Either way RJ you're caught, last time I checked I didn't see any gold on them bugler's shoulders.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Hallo!

An interesting question...

Nowhere that I know of is it covered.

"Usually" three sentinels are posted on the color line as part of the Guard. One at the colors, and two along the line's sides.
The sentinel at the colors is charged to not allow anyone to move or touch the colors except the color bearer or the SOG under the escort of two armed men.
The sentinels on the color line are charged not to allow arms to be taken from the stacks unless ordered by an officer or NCO of the guard.

Other than that, they would be charged with stopping any man approaching the sentinel line for their authorization passes?
It is a bit fuzzy as I have not "mounted a guard" (no pun intended) as the COG.
The "outer lines" of sentinels sign/countersign challenge after hours, and challenge for passes at other times. But interior sentinels do not receive the signs unless by special order. So should they be stopping men in the interior? I think no.

Doesn't answer the question, sorry..

Curt

[paulcalloway]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Purely anecdotal remarks -

In 1995, after using a loaner rifle for awhile, I bought my Enfield while at the Franklin event.

The very next day someone walked through the rifle stacks and knocked over our stack, leaving a deep scar on my rifle stock and knocking the front sights off another rifle.

I really just wanted to defacate in his hat.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

For some reason - and I can't tell you where I got it - besides the obvious potential of knocking over the weapons, I always had the impression that it was a bad luck kind of thing. You know, break the stacks and bad luck will befall the unit. Anyone else ever hear of that or have the same impression?