Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

[Texyank]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I really just wanted to defacate in his hat.

Intersting point about soldiers "policing" their own.

Another question to throw out is whether or not anyone knows of a reference in a diary &c. of a soldier being reprimanded for breaking the color line?

So, maybe instead of banishing the practice of prohibiting crossing the color line from the c/p/h we should respond to the order (as long as said order isn't made in consequence of some non-existent regulation) in some period fashion either complying with the command of superiors (in rank) or maybe popping off with a rejoinder that winds up costing the private a day in the guardhouse.

Jason Hamby

I have the right but not the ability to remain silent
mess.

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

An individual soldier never breaks through a line while the company is formed, but posts around the flank of the formation. Following this logic, could it not be said that the stacks represent the formation, and likewise movement should be around the ends?

[RJSamp]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I had always thought that officers in command or a unit were allowed to issue orders to their men on many aspects of the soldier's life. For example, certain army commanders, from time to time, issued orders banning alcohol from the army's camps, even though one may find that prohibition in the Articles of War, those officers still thought it necessary and appropriate to issue circulars banning the stuff.

Thus, a company commander certainly has authority to ban his men from walking through the stacks, and a battalion commander can certainly disallow anyone from walking through the stacks of his command.

Whether this particular minutia (walking through stacks) is memorialized in a period handbook isn't my point. Rather, it's that officers have the authority to issue orders over their men.

I'll buy ALL of this, from All Y'all. (and I personally only walked once through the stacks, many years ago, about a 6 stack 'Regimental' line, did three laps).

What I'm not buying is that the order is never issued, never posted, never discussed, and now never mentioned in any diary, letter, article, manual, regulation, remembrance, autobiography, reenacting event, company standards, battalion procedures? Ever?

A newbie walks through the stacks, and suddenly their high porting around the color line .....and no one has ever told them not to do it.

If the answer is: we don't do it because the Captain/Colonel ordered it thus....where is the order?! If it's given at Muster's/newbie drill's in the Spring, so be it. When has it been done?

Maybe this is just a newbie indoctrination kind of thing.....everything has to go through it once/find out on your own? Kind of like fetching a Sky Hook for the driller on the oil rig? You are sent to each person on the crew to ask them where it is.....and you end up covering the entire rig (including the derrick tower) looking for it (it don't exist) and meeting every one of your new team mates.

In Drum and Bugle Corps they often lay down their instruments and then take off for lunch or whatever. There are written bylaws that specify how close you can get to the instruments, when you may approach the instruments, and who may give permission to approach your instrument and pick it up. They don't want anybody horsing around and stepping on an expensive item. The rule is in writing and the consequences spelled out. Kind of like spelling out the penalty for desertion, straggling, et al.

And Bob, I have gold boards on my shoulders as needed.....but those brass scales get awfully heavy.

[Guy Gane III]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

For safety's sake, dont walk through the stacks!!!!!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Yeah, or Paul Calloway will defecate in your hat...that is one of the funniest lines ever posted on here. I am drawing crude mental pictures of that particular conversation after the crash, I mean, sometimes "Sorry" clearly just isn't enough!

[27thNCdrummer]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

I think Kevin O' Beirne has put a nail in the coffin. It even says in the "Fighting of Troops" article's that appear in CWH that an officer is supposed to be creative and not always follow the regulations to the last detail. While it was not on the subject of walking through stacked muskets I certainly think that it would carry over to other aspects of duty. It seems like a very minute thing to spend time putting in a manual.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Is it just me, or is anyone else rather bemused that this pretty simple issue is being so overthought and over-discussed here?

RJ, sounds like as a newbie someone forgot to train you in some stuff that becomes apparent common sense after about one drill.

What'll be next here? A discussion about whether or not it's in the Regs or if an officer has authority, or responsibility, to order his men not to burn themselves in the campfire?

[Parault]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

The first time I even heard of not walking through the lines, was when I was at Shiloh, during the campaign march that Friday & Saturday. Our unit was with several Battalions that made up the Division we were protraying,anyway,we had the rifles stacked and a soldier tried to walk between the stacks and the SOG went up and advised him not to do that again in a not so nice way. I asked him about that "rule" he said" we've always done this". I can see the reasons and feel like this is a very good way to keep trouble from happening. Ever since then we've started doing this in the Battalion that I am a part of.

[RJSamp]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

Is it just me, or is anyone else rather bemused that this pretty simple issue is being so overthought and over-discussed here?

RJ, sounds like as a newbie someone forgot to train you in some stuff that becomes apparent common sense after about one drill.

What'll be next here? A discussion about whether or not it's in the Regs or if an officer has authority, or responsibility, to order his men not to burn themselves in the campfire?

Kevin, your surmise would be totally incorrect. Actually it sounds like a LOT of us have been through this exercise. i.e. I'm not the only one who wasn't trained on this as a newbie (and this happened to me 7 years ago, oncest). Many Awkward Squad/School of the Soldier/School of the Company drills end up WITHOUT stacking arms in a long regimental color line and then going 'home' to your dog tent. So after 'one drill' is a total assumption on your part. There often isn't enough time in one drill to go over 'everything'. The first time I saw a Regiment stack arms and leave them there (on the Color Line) was at A135. Never got close enough to them until we formed up to even think about walking through the line. And no one told me not to, I just didn't.

It happened to someone else at an event this spring....and the Sergeant who had the Private run 3 laps around the stack was Asked: Where's it in the regs?

If the answer to the question is: It Isn't. Then simply answer my original question. i.e.
1. you can't document our reenactorism.
2. If it's what they did back then....then show me one example as evidence.

It's common sense to me today to boil bad water and let it cool before drinking it. It wasn't too them back them, nor to the lady who put her McDonald's coffee in between her thighs whilst driving off.

What's the common sense of not walking through the stacks? I've got a good sense of balance, it's wide enough to walk through for the lean lank boys of '62 to walk through, it saves on wasted energy, time, inefficient use of rations, et al. If the penalty was for knocking over a stack or 12 then I can understand that. But no harm no foul.

"What'll be next here? A discussion about whether or not it's in the Regs or if an officer has authority, or responsibility, to order his men not to burn themselves in the campfire?"

They can order it....and it may be their authority or responsibility....but they can't prevent it..nor accidents. Plenty of Soldiers shot themselves in the foot or blew away a finger or had teeth extracted to get out of the Army....or burned themselves in the campfire so they could be sent to the Hospital and not have to enter Combat.

Next we'll have companies assembling early when the bugler sounds First Call and standing out in the hot sun for an extra XX minutes of time. I haven't seen Captains nor Colonels running 3 laps around the entire camp with their sabers up in the air because they didn't have the common sense to keep their men out of the sun....against the General's orders.

Bottom line:
If it's an order, then make it so. Train it, drill it, post it and the consequences, and then enforce it. But remember it doesn't stand up to the authenticity test. (which is why I posted this in the Sinks to begin with).

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

It happened to someone else at an event this spring....and the Sergeant who had the Private run 3 laps around the stack was Asked: Where's it in the regs?

If I was his Sgt, I would tell him, "It isn't in the regs, it is because I said so. Now run another three laps around the stacks and shut up."

How about that men are to act the part as soldiers. I have to agree with Kevin that this topic is just non-sensical. I email out a list of General Orders for our company prior to events and each company officer for our company writes his own General orders prior to an event. These cover various topics that are not covered in the regulations, mainly to get people on the same page prior to the event. There are a whole hot sof orders given during events that are not in the regulations, but are part of running a company. Kautz is probably the best source to describe each NCO and Officers duties.
There just are not regulations to cover every situation.

Jim Butler

[Charles Heath]

Re: Walking through the Color Line/Stacks

The locksmith cometh....

A number of long time AC Forum members have complained about this thread drifting from a reasonable effort to document a common practice to being just another Red Herring Festival. The one comment that sums it up is, "...but this whole thread stinks of mainstream crap that can be found on other forums."

As a whole, it does us good to question long standing practices, and then go through the process of finding the documentation. We usually learn something new every time we do this. We did that recently with a certain fundamental general order over on the OTB Forum; however, when a thread breaks down to "nyah, nyah, nyah," then it's high time to put it in the litter box, lock it up, or wish like heck we had a magic button to send it to you-know-where.

Now, I'm surprised no one has said this, but I'll say it. The modern, non-historical, undocumented reason for keeping Jonah the heck out of the stacked arms can be found in your wallet. Anyone who has had a bayonet lug snapped off, and had to replace it will concur. That's also a reason people alter the shape of the stacks when stacking arms in a swale or on a rise. You won't find that in the manuals, either.

Nuf' 'said. When you finally find the source for "guard against sabers," let me know.