Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

[verg]

Hello Friends,

I would like to request ideas for how and what things might be done on the M1859 (2 whl) Ambulance.

The Baggage Crate:

The Contract Specifications Require:

Baggage crate 2 1/2 feet from bottom, rests on 2 rails, 2 ½ in. deep by ¾ in. thick; the crate is made of 4 slats on bottom, and turns up on each side secured by 2 ribs, which are secured to 2 middle posts; the slats and rib are 1 inch square; the sides, or parts, turned up drop down, by 2 small strap hinges inside.

Ok - we know the dimension and so forth . . . but where does it go? How? How do you visualize it appears?

If you look at this image (taken this past weekend at Gettysburg) you can see the Ambulance. The baggage crate goes somewhere . . . It does not go inside as there is no room with the litters . . . What is also missing is the water keg ( we have one). We do know it goes center rear all the way to the rear - at the tailgate. The water keg is pictured in numerous pics in that position. The baggage crate would contain the driver's kit + the items issued to each ambulance for care of the patients.

http://www.thefieldhospital.com/1859ambulance/2007_15_06_Gburg01_2.jpg

The Fly:

"after we had parked the train and unharnessed the horses, a stiff blow was upon us. In an instant the men produced tent flys which they put on the ambulances and thus accomodated the driver and two or three attendents each."

Here the question is: how did they put tent flys on the ambulances to shelter 3-4 men? Mind that he said they were parked - which I infer would be a fairly orderly arrangements precluding a large foot print for a fly. In the picture references above, you can see one of the ways attempted this past weekend. Any ideas? We know that it was done but not how.

I realize that we are speculating on how a recorded item was used/placed but sometimes (after researching) such guess work is all we have . . .

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

Yours,

John

[1stMaine]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

John,

Well, on the 4-wheeled ambulance, the mess equipment, rations, etc, were all to go into boxes under the driver's seat. Is it possible that thise could be placed there on the 2-wheeled version?

[verg]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

Dear Tim,

That will not work on this design as the litters extend all the way under the drivers seat. The crate goes under the vehicle as best I can tell . . .

I have never seen a pic showing this feature. The water keg is visible, but not the crate. Perhaps its there but the images have inadequate resolution to show the fruit crate like appearing container.

Any more guesses?

What did you think about the fly placement?

Yours,

John

[Hank Trent]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

Baggage crate 2 1/2 feet from bottom, rests on 2 rails, 2 ½ in. deep by ¾ in. thick; the crate is made of 4 slats on bottom, and turns up on each side secured by 2 ribs, which are secured to 2 middle posts; the slats and rib are 1 inch square; the sides, or parts, turned up drop down, by 2 small strap hinges inside.

This may either help you, or answer a question that's been bugging me for a while. :D

In the attached image, what is the horizontal "thing" sort of floating above the middle of the patients? I can't tell if it runs along the side of the ambulance and might be the side curtain rolled up and stored somehow, or if it runs across above the patients.

It occurred to me that if the baggage crate is positioned to rest on rails 2 1/2 feet from (above) the bottom of the ambulance, the rails would be almost exactly as high as the position of the "thing," based on the solid sides of the ambulance being 18" high.

Could the "thing" be the two rails, running across the ambulance and attached to the posts? However, the "thing" is drawn to be more complex than just two rails, yet I can't figure out what it really is. Also, structurally, I'm not sure if the posts would be strong enough to support the weight of a baggage crate, especially when failure means it falls on the patients.

So, for my own curiosity, if it has nothing to do with the baggage crate, what is that "thing"?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[1stMaine]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

John & Hank,

You know, i think that Hank might well be onto something here. If that "crate" is affixed INSIDE and 30" above the floor, it would be centered over the patients. By using the drop-down sides, items and articles could be placed into it to store above the patients when the side flaps of the abulance are raised.

That concept makes a great deal of sense to me, and seems to be indicated both through the description John gives, and the illustration Hank has provided.

As to the tarp, by all means the eaiest way to erect it would be to pitch it over the poles and stake it down. Alternately, one side might be lashed to ONE of the poles, then stretched out away from the ambulance and staked down. Of course, it could also have been lashed to the side, and a lean-to made with a couple of staves and a sapling, etc.

Respects,

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

The "thing" looks like some sort of poorly rendered jack.

[1stMaine]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

Hank,

The "thing" is the side curtain rolled up and secured with leather straps. You can see it in the color pix of John's ambulance that he posted on another thread. In one of them, he has the side curtain rolled up and secured in exactly the same manner.

Respects,

[verg]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

Dear Friends,

Thank you very much for taking the time to look at the images and muse upon what you have seen. I have looked upon the image that Hank has posed at least 1,000 times over the last 27 years and never really noticed what was right in front of me. I always got stuck on the idea that it was different from the 1859 contract but strongly resembled what was often pictured in various illustrated newspapers. There is a sketch of this picture - probably the one from which the woodcut was prepared - in the Library of Congress.

Hank's observation led me to reexamine my data, that is, a collection of m1859 (2 Whl) Ambulance images. First, I looked at the well known grouping of the 1st Div, 2nd Corps's Ambulance Corp at Fredericksburg. Take a look at the rear ambulance with the guy leaning upon it. Something linear is in there.

http://www.thefieldhospital.com/1859ambulance/57th_2_baggage_crate01.jpg

Then, I reexamined the image that Hank posted. I actually had a larger scan of it - I blew it up and sharpened it a bit. Notice the four square notches in the rectangle . . .

Baggage crate 2 1/2 feet from bottom, rests on 2 rails, 2 ½ in. deep by ¾ in. thick; the crate is made of 4 slats on bottom, and turns up on each side secured by 2 ribs, which are secured to 2 middle posts; the slats and rib are 1 inch square; the sides, or parts, turned up drop down, by 2 small strap hinges inside.

http://www.thefieldhospital.com/1859ambulance/fig457coolidge_large_baggage_crate_detail.jpg

I completely missed this. I would like to thank Hank especially for his keen observation.
You definitely get a ride . . . hang on though . . . it's an "E" ticket ride. . .

Please take another look at the pictures and description again. From what is there, How did things NOT slide off an kill the patients? How do you think this thing looked from the sides? The Front and back?

Another observation: Sitting on the Driver's seat, it is a simple matter to get to ones stowed kit in this position. I sat there and mimed what it would be like. From the ground, standing on the side - reaching over the wheel - I could - on tippy toes - reach half way across where the thing would be.

A fresh approach is what was needed. What a positive experience with the AC Forum!

Thank you!

John

[Hank Trent]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

The "thing" is the side curtain rolled up and secured with leather straps.

That's what I thought first too, but looking at the picture again, I can see where the side curtain is. It's rolled up to the extreme top of the ambulance and secured there. You can see it as a lighter-colored object especially well in the blow-up of the drawing John posted.

From what is there, How did things NOT slide off an kill the patients? How do you think this thing looked from the sides? The Front and back?

That's what I can't figure out.

You definitely get a ride . . . hang on though . . . it's an "E" ticket ride. . .

LOL! I'm glad I could be of some help. Actually, I've been eyeing this line on your web page:

"Assistant Surgeon... You should consider recruiting an orderly."

I can't be an attendant because some of the patients might outweigh me by 50-100 pounds without even being overweight, and there's no way I can carry up to 80% of my own bodyweight. But orderly I could do. Do you have any assistant surgeons needing one? If so, send me an email sometime.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[1stMaine]

Re: Baggage Crate and Fly . . .

John & Hank,

The key to deciphering the box is this line: and turns up on each side

If you consider that to be, in fact, each side, as in, all four sides, then it makes perfect sense. All four sides are made to fold down so as to gain access to whatever is required from any direction. That also keeps the items within from sliding out during travel.

Respects,