Why cant we form 100 man companies?

[davidf]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Personally, from being in the 2nd WI, Company A for 4 years (2002-2006), and during that time I can only remember going to an event that we did a full company drill. It was at one of the Wade House events and instead of doing batallion drill, the guys decided to combine all the companies and we basically had the perfect numbers for a full company. It was interesting to do drill that way. Besides that though, I don't ever remember doing 100-man companies at the events I attended. I may have missed some, I don't know. For those 4 years, I stuck to only Wisconsin for events, and my father and me both observed the slow deline of particpants and divisions among groups. I first got interested in reenacting as a kid when I saw Wade House in the late 1990's, when numbers were huge. Over 1,000 reenactors would show up. By the time I got to go to Wade House and participate, they may have been at 1,000 or most likely just below that. Last time I was there, Infantry for both sides were 100 or less. Maybe thinks have improved since I left for college, I don't know. Staying in Wisconsin, I never got to an event larger than that. I would love to see a batallion larger than 100 guys again (like I said, something I haven't seen for a few years). That will most likely solved of course this coming summer at 145th Gettysburg.

I am not worried about 100-man companies, I really want to see 250-350 man regiments.

[Todd Watts]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

In my opinion, one big problem at events stems from these small units all merged together. We have Captains and Majors directly behind their company or battalion issuing orders. But the units are so small that the officers of the other units are within talking distance to the officer we are supposed to be under, so we hear clearly the orders of other units' officers. That caused all sorts of confusion for my unit at Mill Springs. I wish there were a way to create several units into larger area forces, so the parts of different units would routinely form into larger companies or battalions at events, all with men and officers used to working together. I think we are way too brass & stripe-heavy across the board.

[guad42]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Too many cheifs, not enough Indians. Units should elect their officers. There shouldn't be too many of them in the first place.

Fundamental issue though eh?

Sam Kilborn Dolan

[D Harrelson]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

From my notes, the 59th Virginia Infantry Regiment surrendered 143 officrs and men at Appomattox. Do the math and see what an early war regiment would have fielded on the CS side. About five years ago, I helped sponsor a LH at Berkeley Hundred and as I recall we were damn near the size of the entire 83rd PA (immediately after the Seven Days Battles) with only about 150 or so participants. Do the math and see what a mid-war US regiment was fielding. Go back and see that depleted CS regiments were re-forming with new recruits while depleted US regiments were being newly established from reminants of earlier units. Ten-Fifteen-Twenty man companies on either side would have been more normal than you perceive.

D Harrelson

[RJSamp]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

From my notes, the 59th Virginia Infantry Regiment surrendered 143 officrs and men at Appomattox. Do the math and see what an early war regiment would have fielded on the CS side. About five years ago, I helped sponsor a LH at Berkeley Hundred and as I recall we were damn near the size of the entire 83rd PA (immediately after the Seven Days Battles) with only about 150 or so participants. Do the math and see what a mid-war US regiment was fielding. Go back and see that depleted CS regiments were re-forming with new recruits while depleted US regiments were being newly established from reminants of earlier units. Ten-Fifteen-Twenty man companies on either side would have been more normal than you perceive.

D Harrelson

don't know where you are going with these non PEC examples.....sure we can pick scenarios/vignettes, a time period during the war where troops strengths for a specific regiment was at a low number and mold an EBUFU event around that.....but it doesn't help us understand nor develop the framework around what it meant for a civil war soldier to have at one point drilled for 3 -6 months, 8 hours a day, in 80 rifle companies with 800 rifle regiments in 1500-4000 rifle brigades. I'm not saying have an I-76 because you can't get 600 officer's as hostages for an I-600 event. We often can't even form decent sized regiment's with a color company etc. These two units that you cite at one point in time during the American Civil War drilled as a Regiment.....let's do the same. (the 83rd PA had 12 buglers just prior to Yorktown....March 1862...10 were returned to the ranks just prior to going tacit (silent) during the siege).

There's a difference between 7 man and 11 man football.....and it's different ploying 350 rifles versus 93 versus 44 from line to close column...

[billmatt04]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Learn how to drop the ego/rank.

Amen. Something I wish more people took to heart.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Taking an entertainment break from Bummers planning... this thread has been very entertaining so far. :D

I think the answer about 100-man company has been answered in the thread... by Hank... a citizen. It depends on what we are portraying in the field. If there were an average of 40-man companies for a particular scenario, that is what we try to do. If there is a scenario, like Paul mentioned early in the thread - training camp, early war, extenuating circumstances, conscript surge, etc, etc, then it is done in the field as it was then. If someone comes up with a good idea, which involved 100-man companies, then I'm sure people would come... not for the 100-man company necessarily, but for the interesting scenario.

The real question is how many PEOPLE can we field and could we ever really collectively cooperate enough to reach that number... that is... if we could agree on the number. :p Back to work...

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Folks,

The Back to the Mainstream and associated comments have been moved to the appropriate sump thread, which is locked for obvious reasons. Let's keep this thread on the topic of large companies, which is a darn fine topic in itself. Also, an earlier 100-man company thread has been merged with the more recent conversation.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

"Can we form a 100 man company in the field"...I think we can. But the question should read "Could we actually COMMAND and CONTROL a 100 man Company in the field"...I am not sure?

"We did as we wuz told, and boy did we pay the price"--Unkown "Outpost" Confederate

[Smokey Toes]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

There have been some pretty interesting points made in this discussion. IMO as long as the unit to be portrayed in a given scenario calls for a 100 man company; it can and should be done. That is what we strive to do in this hobby, recreate a given point in time as accurately as possible given the means at our disposal. The ability to command and control (C2) a full company effectively is a VERY valid concern, as C2 obviously influences the inherent safety issues that can and have occurred.

C2 falls squarely on the unit’s “leadership” and their knowledge of both the scenario and applicable drill. Movements, facings, firing etc are all covered therein, but more importantly it must be understood that SAFETY IS BUILT IN THE MANUALS, so when I say “leadership”, I really mean from the corporals on up. You can have the most gee-wiz, drill-savvy officers in the world, but let one NCO screw up and miss a fresh fish doing something stupid and someone can get hurt in the blink of an eye. (In other words you shouldn’t have some 16 year old corporal failing to fix a 40 year old private when he’s doing something wrong because he either doesn’t know or is afraid to act). When you move a unit towards the “enemy” across broken ground, thick vegetation and smoke while people are taking “hits” things can get screwy real quick, and it’s only compounded by larger numbers. That’s why I’m not a big fan of having NCOs and officers appointed for some of the reasons I’ve seen in the past (IE: how many guys they recruited for the event, how popular they are, or they’ve never done it before so they wanted a chance, etc).

I personally haven’t been in the ranks of a full sized company. I’d love to though. There is much to be learned and experienced at each and every event, regardless of whether the unit you fall in with does well or poorly because you can always take experienced-based lessons and build on them. There is no better way to improve.

[stannie1950]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

It would be pretty neat to be in a large company; mine consists of only thirty men. Unfortunately, the number of reenactors in California is pretty low. One must make do with what one has...

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

I personally haven’t been in the ranks of a full sized company. I’d love to though.

Eric,

You actually were with a historical sized company at Shiloh NPS in 2005. You even served as the Orderly Sgt for that company. We had 57 men representing one of the companies from the 8th Illinois (avg. company size at start of Shiloh was 55 men). That was also the largest company I have drilled with.

Regards,
Jim Butler

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Also, when I was at the Vicksburg NPS event this year, we toured the battlefield. In side the impressive Illinois Monument at the park, we took note of the numbers of men listed for one of the Illinois Divisions (which included the 8th Illinois). Many of the companies looked like this: (Sample)

26 privates
7 corporals
4 Sgts

34 privates
2 corporals
5 sgts

38 privates
6 corporals
2 sgts

It seemed like damn small companies to have 4-5 file closing sgts. I believe these extra file closers would logically been put back in the ranks as shooters. I seem to recollect info on Hazen at Picketts Mill that he had many of his file closers up on the firing line.

Jim Butler

[Smokey Toes]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Eric,

You actually were with a historical sized company at Shiloh NPS in 2005. You even served as the Orderly Sgt for that company. We had 57 men representing one of the companies from the 8th Illinois (avg. company size at start of Shiloh was 55 men). That was also the largest company I have drilled with.

Regards,
Jim Butler

Jim,

I'm aware of that....I was speaking of a 100 man company.....

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why cant we form 100 man companies?

Cross-over threads....in the Outpost AAR, I brought up the question "what can we do better." I also asked in this thread "can we command and control a 100 man company"...

Looking ahead...can we make it a goal during the WIG Event at Shiloh in 2009, form a company of that size?

The Wig has proven much to us, I believe they can do it!