Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

That's right... denim was used even prior to the war- especially in miner's camps in the California gold rush era. From their history website at Levis... Levi Strauss was the first to PATENT his riveted work pants. The design probably goes back much earlier.

-Johnny

[Matt Caldwell]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

I have a bolt of indigo dyed denim that compares favorably the lining of an original state jacket I viewed several years ago. The weight and hand of the original lining is close to that of cotton drill but slightly boardier (not as heavy as bull denim or china twill). The jacket lining appeared to have been a yarn-dyed indigo weft on a chocolate brown warp, with the weft having a very vibrant medium-dark hue. This is the only original denim I have viewed in person.

The fabric I found locally is a piece-dyed bolt of pure indigo dyed denim with a previously brown warp. The reason I say "previously" is because since the fabric is piece-dyed the brown warp now has a greenish-brown appearance due to the indigo dye. The color, weave, weight, thickness of yarns, yarn count, and hand are all very similar to the original jacket lining. The only problem is the selvedge; it has the little tufts of cotton yarn sticking out, which is something I've been told is not a selvedging technique from the mid-19th century.

I go to the local fabric store once a week to see what else they have and I've only ever found this denim once. They carry a great deal of other denims that have the rougher appearance of cotton jeancloth but I'm not sure how they compare to originals. I for one would love to see an original pair of blue denim trousers, or even a military jacket made from the same.

I have viewed a few of these garments, but nothing that war mass produced (so far). If I remember correctly, since I have not been around for a while, is that they are svery similar to a light weight den. The yarns are slightly thinner than that of which we see today on modern jeans, but it can be found in bulk at some decent fabric stores. Here are a few pics of two trousers that I viewed at the Old Statehouse Museum in Jackson, Miss.

Enjoy.

[NYCivilWar]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

Matt,

Thank you very much for the photos, they are much appreciated!!

-Kyle M. Stetz

[jgr1974]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

Mr Caldwell,

Thank you so much for the pictures!!! It is very intersting to see the inside of the pants and the pockets and compare the fading!!!!

The Mad MIck!!!

[Utley]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

Somehow I just came across this discussion on denim and thought I would throw in a little that I've picked up through the years. The weaver that I work with on making the coverlets (and hopefully blankets soon) is from a family that has weaved since the early 19th century. He has a swatch of denim that was woven by his ancestors in the 1840's, and it is undyed and he has no knowledge of them ever producing dyed denim. He said, from family folklore passed down of course, that they produced denim to sell to clothing mfgers who were making their money from the Gold Rush.

Now, the denim is about an 8-10 oz or so and looks really close to the undyed stuffs that we can find at fabric stores. I also spoke with Sandra Altman (who I'll have to paraphrase since she's not on this board) of Past Patterns. She has examined numerous original items made from denim (most also undyed, including overalls) and said that the 8-10oz weight was the closest thing we have now to the original.

Just a little bit more info.

[Southern Cal]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

When I visited what I remember as the city museum in Atlanta, there was a wing devoted to the Civil War. The exhibit is a gem of uniforms, weapons, and artifacts; many of the uniforms set on mannequins in the context of a simulated encampment or a fortified position, etc. The long and short is that what struck me was the observation that several of the uniforms on display looked very much like denim, in both weave and material. Someone with more expertise in fabrics than an intersted but untutored visitor like me would need to evaluate these uniforms since the type of material wasn't indicated. In any case, this museum is well worth a visit.

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Modern Denim vs. mid 19th century denim

What was the approximate weight of period cotton denim and where can I find a photo of the Port Hudson trousers.