Seccession?

[CARY MEADOWS]

I thought this issue was setteled 140 years ago.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/local/Birmingham/CBS_42_Birmingham/SIG=11r3umjaq/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiat.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F10204186.html

Cary Meadows

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Seccession?

That's, um, certainly interesting.

[jacifus]

Re: Seccession?

I thought this issue was setteled 140 years ago.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/local/Birmingham/CBS_42_Birmingham/SIG=11r3umjaq/**http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiat.com%2Fnews%2Flocal%2F10204186.html

Cary Meadows

That is a common misconception.
The war didn't settle the issue. It simply laid it to rest for the moment.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Seccession?

That is a common misconception.
The war didn't settle the issue. It simply laid it to rest for the moment.

Couldn't disagree more - at a cost of 640,000 lives, this issue was settled once and for all.

[Slouch]

Re: Seccession?

The CW certainly made everyone aware of the Federal Government's feeling on the issue. However, I am unaware of any changes to the Constitution that forbade any future attempts.

Funny how a some citizens of a northern state now see seccession as a viable option. There was also serious discusson of seccession among some New England states during the War of 1812

[jacifus]

Re: Seccession?

Paul:

With all due respect, the issue of SLAVERY was settled.
Let me explain why secession wasn't.

When Jefferson Davis was indicted for treason, Chief Justice Samuel Chase of the Supreme Court advised dropping the issue, which was done, because of the fact that if the matter went to court, secession would have been vindicated, as there is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting it.

His exact quote was "we will lose in court, everything that was won on the battlefield"........

[paulcalloway]

Re: Seccession?

Well, you have my opinion on the issue.

With regard to this thread - tread carefully. We do not want to be associated with the wild-eyed, whack-job, lost-causers who so frequently come through here thinking they'll find bed-fellows in the AC community. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Lost-causers have a modern-day political agenda which has no place on this forum.

[john duffer]

Re: Seccession?

this issue was settled once and for all.


Not to mention that reinstating slavery seems pretty unlikely at this point.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Seccession?

While I'm proud of my Southern Heritage...the issue of secession was settled...and for the better. We are a much stronger Nation, because we settled our differences early on in our Country's history.

As Paul C. said with a cost of 640,000 + lives lost during the American Civil War, the ultimate price was paid.

If understand right, secession was always viewed as a form of treason; which I believe the Constitution outlines very well...this is punisheable by death!

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Seccession?

Secession has only one "c" in it, for whatever it's worth.

Southerners in the 1850s/1860s and later argued that it was a right inherent in the Constitution and in the Declaration of Independence. Lost Causers carry the same old weary arguments to this time. In the Declaration, Jefferson wrote, "Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to abolish it, and to institute a new government." To the same end, Abraham Lincoln in 1848 declared that "any people, anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better."' In saying so, he stipulated that such revolution should only be in a just cause, and that justice, like beauty, lies in the eyes of the beholder. Lincoln, and millions of citizens in the North (as well as in the South) saw no just cause for disunion, especially in defense of slavery; infuriated Southerners saw every justification. As for the Constitution itself, nowhere does it explicitly provide for secession, and nowhere does it prohibit it either. It is silent on this issue.

Lincoln put his finger on it in his 1847 quotation. "Any people," he said, "having the power" had the right to rise up. The fact is and always has been that there are no basic, inherent, universal "rights." There are only those freedoms that people perceive to be worth asserting, and if necessary defending, and if they are maintained successfully, then they become rights for as long as they can be defended. Simply stated, Freedom isn't free -- it must be won and then subsequently defended. In this context might does make right (and rights).

Secession would have been legal only if the Confederacy tried it, successfully defended it, and thus established a precedent, just as our legal codes today are full of provisions that were not lawful until someone tried them in court and won the case. As of this moment secession is not and never has been a right inherent in the Constitution, but that is not to say that someday it will not become a right if attempted again and successfully.

[jacifus]

Re: Seccession?

Well, you have my opinion on the issue.

With regard to this thread - tread carefully. We do not want to be associated with the wild-eyed, whack-job, lost-causers who so frequently come through here thinking they'll find bed-fellows in the AC community. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Lost-causers have a modern-day political agenda which has no place on this forum.

I can assure you I am NOT one of them. I am however, a teacher and a strict constitutionalist. As a reenactor, I do not express political views......

[jacifus]

Re: Seccession?

With all due respect, as I stated earlier, secession was not considered treason. It was also never put into law as being so, even AFTER the war.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Seccession?

To all-

Speaking as an American war veteran and a private citizen:

If Americans truly understood what an honor it means to be an American and how much others wish they were around the world, the modern "debate" on this "issue", if there is one in 2007, would be a moot point.

When you fight in Iraq or a combat zone as an American
soldier/sailor/marine/airman, you are part of "one team, one fight" ... but you do have a concept of who you are as a person inside as an individual. Sometimes this person inside of yourself is different than what that team may be fighting for or thinking about as a group, but you still pull-together for mutual survival and benefit no matter what.

I love my fellow American, but may differences with them and that's okay. It does not, however, mean we still aren't part of "one team, one fight."

Don't we have bigger fish-to-fry than our own silly internal gripes as Americans? What about Iraq, Russia, China, and North Korea and their wanting us to argue amongst ourselves over pettiness? How about Al Qaeda and their attacks on our country, and more attacks to come? We need unity with each other now more than ever, and not let the frustrations amongst us get the better of us.

I've been to Iraq and lived with the Iraqis while there. Comparatively, our lives aren't bad here at all, no matter how much we think they are. Trust me, I know firsthand on this.

Bottom line: The wolves are at the door scratching to get in... "We shall all hang together or we shall all hang seperately".

With my 2 cents on the subject... Mr. Ezell, even though I deviated from it in my own words above (mea culpa for that), thanks for bringing this thread back to historical context- which is what needs to be debated here only.

Other than that, this thread is dicey, at best, to leak into what Mr. Calloway has already accurately described- I feel it should be removed or closed based upon such qualifications and future negative possibilities.

As my promise to you all, since I've given my personal views above, any further comments on this thread by me will be limited to a historical context if this thread is allowed to continue.

Proud to be a Southerner... but overall always proud to be an American.

I remain-

[Michael Comer]

Re: Seccession?

The whole idea these folks have is idiotic.

Say, they secede - which country will be the first they want to establish relations with? Why the United States of course. I suppose they have also figured out who their main trade partners will be so they will have some sort of economic system and happy citizens receiving the goods they need and want, plus their self-governing plan is all set to go, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Somehow I doubt that a couple of counties in Tennessee or wherever will survive very long as an independent nation.

The sheer lunacy and idiocy of this just amazes me. Where's that thread about portraying an imbecile - I think we've found our folks.

[jacifus]

Re: Seccession?

I agree with you. The subject is waaaay to volatile, and indeed we ARE all Americans, regardless. :)