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  • Re: Our position on plagiarism

    There's "plagarism" and there's plagarism. It's a bit like pornography (to use a famous example): "I know it when I see it." That said, sometimes there's plagarism that's so outrageous one need not be a legal expert to recognize it.

    Someone once wrote to me that he regarded a certain, well-known, and pretty-esteemed historian/writer was "a plagarist of the lowest order." What did this historian/writer do to deserve this label? Per my correspondent, the correspondent had told the historian where to find, in the National Archives and perhaps some other public repositories, information on a certain regiment in a certain battle about which the historian was writing a book. I guess the correspondent wanted to be in a footnote or in the book's acknowledgements or something but, because the historian published the book (a volume that is is fairly well-known to most of us) without naming my correspondent, the correspondent called the historian "a plagarist of the lowest order." Last I knew, it was legal and ethical to use material in the National Archives, because they're public domain. I therefore thought my correspondent to be more than a bit unreasonable about the issue. To me, that was hardly "plagarism".

    Sometimes people excerpt a certain amount of words or sentences from someone else's published work. Whether or not that's plagarism, if done without the permission of the author (which is probably very common), is highly debatable and is something for legal eagles to decide. There's something (which you can read online--I believe I posted it here once in a previous edition of this forum)--called the "fair use rule" that attempts to provide some broad guidelines on what you can rightfully use of someone else's work.

    The fair use rule is something that keeps copyright lawyers (and other legal eagles who concentrate on that type of thing) in business. What constitutes fair use when you're using a quote from a previously-published work written by someone else? The answer is, "it all depends", in part upon the length of the excerpt and in part upon the length of the original work (for instance, if you excerpt 100 words from someone's 200-word essay without their permission, that's probably not "fair use").

    Remember, copyright laws are mostly written to protect the commercial value (that's dollars) of art--whether it's recorded music or some other form of artistic expression that can be sold for money. If the excerpt is small enough, it's perfectly legal to do it. A great example of this is how certain "rap" (hip hop?) artists "sample" parts of tunes of other artists, often to the point that a listener can readily tell where the "sample" came from. That's usually considered legal, depending on the "sample", even if the rap artist repeats that sampling over and over, so that it's virtually the basis for his or her new recording.

    My work has been (as I viewed it) properly cited in the footnotes or endnotes of others' work, including a couple of "big name" Civil War historian/writers. When each of these guys called me and we talked on the phone, and I e-mailed them some info, they never (that I recall), explicitly asked, "May I use a portion of your writing in my book?" but because I was cited, I certainly had no problem with their use of the material (in fact, bieng an amateur, I was flattered, especially because one guy was my favorite historian/writer still publishing today :) ). One such "name writer" had a number of pages in one of his books that were clearly based almost exclusively on my research, but I was cited in the endnotes several times, and considering that most of what he was citing was stuff that I'd already published in a magazine (North and South) and been paid for, I had no problem with his reliance on my work (again, I was actually flattered).

    To an extent, sometimes what a writer may regard as "plagarism" of his or her work may depend in part on the value of what was lifted without the writer's permission. Frankly put, most reenactor-writing has little real financial value. No one gets rich (or probably even makes a living of much a sort) off of writing for reenactors. I've seen parts of my work lifted without my permission in more than one place--often in the handbook or some reenactor group or in the "handbook" that sometimes accompanies camp of instruction-type events. I generally don't do much about that either, because when I write a reenactor how-to article the idea is to get info out there for reenactors to "do it more accurately". And those cases that I've seen where someone used my work without my permission are always credited to me, whether it's an article-reprint or whether someone cites my work (sometimes at some length!) in something they wrote. And, most of all, no one was making money off of re-using my stuff without permission--that's a key point. I'll almost always share info or readily authorize a reprint of an article or something, but if it's for someone else to make money off it, well... When major, glossy history magazines reprint an article (of course, they are doing so to sell it again), they always pay the writer; at least that's my experience--several of my articles have been reprinted in special, limited-edition collectible volumes by the magazine that originally published the article in a regular issue; they pay their writers for that, and are good enough to do so without the writer needing to come knock on their door after he or she saw it on the newsstand.

    Of course, these magazines also use something that's virtually unknown in the reenactors' writing/researching community: a one- or two-page legal agreement stipulating the terms of use of the author's work. (That I know of, no reenactor-oriented periodical uses such things, whether "Camp Chase Gazette", "Civil War Historian", "Citizens' Companion", "Civil War News", "Civil War Courier", etc.; I don't know for sure, but I'd expect that "Reenactors' Journal (now defunct) and "Smoke and Fire News" do not (or did not) use such agreements. These agreements are nice because 1) Everyone knows what they're agreeing to with the use of the author's work, and 2) The agreement is a very simple form (at least the ones I've signed with periodicals like North and South, Military Heritage, America's Civil War, and others).

    There's plagarism of thought--so some folks claim. There's been some fairly well known examples of this in reenacting, where one party claims to have been the first to research or write on, or portray, this or that, and the claim is made that they have exclusive rights to that idea or portrayal. I won't comment on that, but will just say that once upon a time, I was privvy to discussions with someone who was in a snit because he or she claimed to somehow have an exclusive right (or something) to publish works on the Civil War's common Federal soldier. Yes, some folks have made such claims that I've heard of, as preposterous as it may sound. Draw your own conclusion on whether a jury would call that "plagarism". If it was, then the estates of folks like Wilbur Hindman and John Billings would sue the estate of Bell I. Wiley, not to mention many reenactors!

    Then there's other, more notorious examples of plagarism, where even a blind man can see that a certain act constitutes plagarism. These are the cases where the plagarist litererally retypes the original work without knowledge or consent of the original author and, with little or no editing to even attempt to disguise it, sells it to someone else while representing it as his or her own work. It's difficult to argue that such behavior is anywhere near "proper" or ethical.

    The thing about reenactors plagarizing reenactors, as Paul and Justin appear to be pointing out in their posts above, is that it may well discourage folks from further publishing their research. Should plagarism do that, it's a loss to the community because good, documented resarch prepared for use by reenactors is all too often a rarity, and heavens knows, more of it is certainly needed to keep the hobby moving forward.
    Last edited by Kevin O'Beirne; 08-06-2007, 12:42 PM.

    Comment


    • Re: Our position on plagiarism

      A couple of things have happened to me over the years that made me shake my head.
      (1) I quoted William Manchester in one of my local histories. The quote had the proper cite with it, but the cite was lost in editing. I added a note explaining that in every copy I could retrieve. Technically, it's still an unauthorized quote without a cite.

      2. Several local people were up in arms claiming that "a schoolteacher" had the only right to write about local history. He blew a fuse when my book came out and produced his own, pointedly stating in the foreword that he had rushed it to press because there was an inferior product out there by an unauthorized amateur. I saw his book. It was several hundred pages of photocopies of articles, some from recent newspapers and magazines, bound by a print shop. He saw nothing wrong with doing that and pointed out that he had a great deal of important information in it, especially a certain newspaper article...which happened to be from a reporter who had interviewed me.

      3. A well-known regional historian asked me to help on a project about a local tragedy. He gave people my phone number to set up appointments, had me on the phone for a couple of hours at a time about every weekend, came out for a couple of driving tours...then cut off all contact without explanation. When the book came out, he not only didn't thank me, but quoted one of my books as "an anonymous unpublished manuscript", altered my sister's interview to omit any mention of my name and took to telling people that I didn't even live in the area when the event occurred.

      In the first case, I didn't MEAN to plagiarize, but unless I hunt down every copy and annotate it, that's how it'll look in the future. In the second, the writer really had no clue that he was doing anything untoward. He copies things for classroom use all the time and somehow assumed that if classroom copies were okay, assembling the copies for sale was, too. In the third...I don't know what to think.
      Last edited by Becky Morgan; 08-06-2007, 08:48 PM. Reason: Typos removed
      Becky Morgan

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      • Re: Our position on plagiarism

        Becky,

        What to think? Once bitten twice shy I would say. Before giving extensive interviews or tours explain up front you expect to be properly cited, make good records, and if plaigarized nail the creep.

        As to the "gentleman" who besmirched your honor, I would possibly contact someone with the legal background in such things and see if there is anything you can do along the lines of slander.
        Robert Collett
        8th FL / 13th IN
        Armory Guards
        WIG

        Comment


        • Re: Our position on plagiarism

          I fact check for the History Channel Magazine and you would be surprised how much plagiarism we come across almost every article. Most of it is not blatant, but just over sites, but regardless that is still plagiarism regardless if the author meant to take someone else's work or not. Even if you are just using a fact from someones work that needs to be cited, whether the work is published or not.

          It is best summed up by one of my college professors: Cite everything (names, dates, places, and everything else that is not your opinion. and stick to primary sources and you should be alright.

          I have used this method and my articles likely have way too much citation, but at least that way I am covered and won't get slapped with plagiarism.

          Great Job Paul and Mods. Keep them Honest!!!

          Andy Timmer
          Andy Timmer
          Winona Grays Mess

          Comment


          • Re: Our position on plagiarism

            "I have neither given nor received any unauthorized aid, nor have I witnessed a violation of the Honor Code."
            - honor code of Gettysburg College, required on all submitted work.

            Class of 1984 (BA in Latin and Greek)
            Rob Weaver
            Co I, 7th Wisconsin, the "Pine River Boys"
            "We're... Christians, what read the Bible and foller what it says about lovin' your enemies and carin' for them what despitefully use you -- that is, after you've downed 'em good and hard."
            [I]Si Klegg[/I]

            Comment


            • Re: Our position on plagiarism

              I applaud the AC’s stand on intellectual integrity, respecting plagiarism. I think, though, that some of the commentary in this thread is muddling plagiarism with what might be better described as copyright violations. They are not quite the same thing. The definition of plagiarism:

              Plagiarize: to steal and pass off the ideas or words of another as one’s own; to use a created production without crediting the source; to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source. (Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, 10th ed. 1996)

              So, if I am writing an article on a particular Civil War battle or campaign, and I lift an entire passage out of a Bruce Catton or Stephen Sears volume -- without giving proper credit to the actual source of the words -- that is indeed plagiarism. The idea of copyright involves something else. Literally, copyright law restricts one’s ability to “copy” someone else’s protected work whether or not credit to the actual author/creator is given. For example, U2 or some other band (well, their recording labels, actually) don’t want us burning copies of their albums, even if we prominently label the copies as being “by” said band. The wholesale reproduction, or copying in major part, of copyrighted writings is also fraught with potential legal consequences. But there are certain “fair use” provisions in copyright law that allow for non-commercial use (research, etc.) of limited portions of copyrighted works. As far as I been made aware, permission from the actual author isn’t generally required for limited quotations, so long as proper credit is given.

              I work as a paralegal in a law firm. Trust me, lawyers in their written briefs use limited quotes from copyrighted works -- law review articles, treatises, books -- all the time, and they don't go running to the authors for permission. But they are generally very careful to fully identifiy the source of the quotation. Quite proper -- quite legal.
              Last edited by Dan Munson; 08-17-2007, 06:52 PM. Reason: Added comments
              Dan Munson
              Co. F, 1st Calif. V.I.
              5th Wisc./10th Va.

              Comment


              • Re: Our position on plagiarism

                Concur. Unless it's common knowledge that is undisputable, always cite the authority and acknowledge those who helped. Besides being a nice pat on the back, it encourages sharing and because of sharing, the collective body of knowledge improves for the entire community.
                GaryYee o' the Land o' Rice a Roni & Cable Cars
                High Private in The Company of Military Historians

                Comment


                • Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                  I received a subscription renewal notice for the Watchdog. It said that the Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog were now together and had merged editorial operations. As of Oct. 1, I am now on the Camp Chase Gazette mailing list.

                  This came as a surprise to me. I have never subscribed to the Camp Chase Gazette and was of the opinion that it had a lot of problems and was not something that served the needs of the more authentic reenactor.

                  Has something changed in that regard? Before I plunk down my money for a renewal I'd like a little more information about this merger. Perhaps Craig Barry can address this issue and tell us a little more about how things might or might not change with either publication.
                  Michael Comer
                  one of the moderator guys

                  Comment


                  • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                    I imagine Mr. Barry will be along. Here's what Bill C. told me last weekend

                    If you had a year of the WD(4 issues) to go, you get a year of the CCG (12 ? issues).

                    WD has an 8 page section within it, mostly free of advertising.

                    They will also be working to remedy the basic editing and layout errors that have plauged the CCG and the CC and hope to bring both publications back up to the level we were accustomed to for so many years.

                    This will also allow WD folks more time to devote to the proposed companion volumes to the CRRC---a confederate volume and a civilian volume.
                    Terre Hood Biederman
                    Yassir, I used to be Mrs. Lawson. I still run period dyepots, knit stuff, and cause trouble.

                    sigpic
                    Wearing Grossly Out of Fashion Clothing Since 1958.

                    ADVENTURE CALLS. Can you hear it? Come ON.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                      So, what does this mean for Watchdog? Does it mean that Watchdog will be gone forever and not return? I was going to subscribe to Watchdog at Christmas, but now not quite sure what to do.
                      David Fictum,
                      Member of the Pennsylvania College Guard,
                      recent member of the 2nd WI, Co A

                      Comment


                      • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                        Been a 'Dawg subscriber for a long time now... I think I have every issue save one salted away in the reference library, and it's time to renew again, if there's anything left to renew to.

                        Based on the content of CCG over the past couple of years, this is indeed an unholy alliance. I like hot dogs, too, but I sure don't like my 'dogs sandwiched between the stuff CCG has been selling since it was sold out to the Civil War Courier folks.

                        Sad news...
                        Tom Ezell

                        Comment


                        • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                          I know Mr. Barry will be along shortly to give the official answer, but after several discussions with him about this , the Watchdog will still be around, only it will have a larger section in each issue of CCG. The reasoning given was to help increase the knowledge to "the masses". Those who have received the Dog over the years know the quality info that goes into it, but it was kind of like preaching to the choir. By going to CCG, they are going to the audience that really needs it the most. I understand that reasoning entirely, but it still dissapoints me deeply, as CCG has no integrity, has few articles that appeal to the progressive historian, and continues to publish articles from a known plagiarist even after being discovered for what he is. I think the broad idea to go to the masses is great, but I'm not too sure how this community is going to take the new vessel to sail in.
                          Ross L. Lamoreaux
                          rlamoreaux@tampabayhistorycenter.org


                          "...and if profanity was included in the course of study at West Point, I am sure that the Army of the Cumberland had their share of the prize scholars in this branch." - B.F. Scribner, 38th Indiana Vol Inf

                          Comment


                          • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                            Mr. Lamoreaux:

                            While I too have been a Dog subscriber for some time, I was also serving missionary duty to mainstreamers prior to finding the dark side. Their motives are admirable and quite survival based. I wish them more luck than many of us experienced doing the same sort of thing.

                            Sure will miss the old Dog.
                            Ley Watson
                            POC'R Boys Mess of the Columbia Rifles

                            [B][I]"The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely the one who dropped it."[/I][/B]

                            [I]Coach Lou Holtz[/I]

                            Comment


                            • Re: Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

                              Thanks for chiming in Ross, you're always the voice of reason.

                              I would ask everyone to calm down a bit. Just like the upcoming History Channel project, let's not condemn a new idea or concept before it even starts, let's exercise a little patience and give the Watchdog folks a chance, they've never let us down in the past and they've always had our best interest at heart, I see no reason to think they are changing course now...even if it is on a different vessel.

                              Originally posted by Ross L. Lamoreaux View Post
                              I know Mr. Barry will be along shortly to give the official answer, but after several discussions with him about this , the Watchdog will still be around, only it will have a larger section in each issue of CCG. The reasoning given was to help increase the knowledge to "the masses". Those who have received the Dog over the years know the quality info that goes into it, but it was kind of like preaching to the choir. By going to CCG, they are going to the audience that really needs it the most. I understand that reasoning entirely, but it still dissapoints me deeply, as CCG has no integrity, has few articles that appeal to the progressive historian, and continues to publish articles from a known plagiarist even after being discovered for what he is. I think the broad idea to go to the masses is great, but I'm not too sure how this community is going to take the new vessel to sail in.
                              [COLOR="DarkRed"] [B][SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua]Christopher J. Daley[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                              Comment


                              • Shame to see any dog to be put to sleep...

                                That is a shame. Sounds to me like they aren't changing vessels but rather that their vessel is being scuttled and its passengers being forced to take passage with the unscrupulous captain of the CCG. It isn't the Watchdog's past performance that is causing the consternation but rather the performance of CCG.

                                Oh well, perhaps selling articles directly to CCG was the only way for the Dawg to keep them from being plagiarized. ;-)
                                Troy Groves "AZReenactor"
                                1st California Infantry Volunteers, Co. C

                                So, you think that scrap in the East is rough, do you?
                                Ever consider what it means to be captured by Apaches?

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