Camp Chase Gazette and the Watchdog

[I. Hogg]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

For a moment, with Mr. Hughes at the helm, CCG was beginning to represent our 'wing' of the hobby. It no longer does.
Most of us here are simply beyond what they have to offer.
A publication geared to us would have a very small circulation.
The people at the CCG probably have not even noticed all the campaigner subscriptions that have lapsed over the last year. Its probably a drop in the bucket.

I barely opened my last few editions, especially after that 'Reenacting with a Henry' debacle.
Event articles that are two months old just doesn't cut it.

I don't think they care or not if 'we' buy it.

Steve Parrish
Hogg Mess

[Jeffrey Przewozniak]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Hi all,

Before we move on, regarding the "same boring how-to" articles, I think we need to remember something. CCG more than likely has a VERY large reenactor subscriber base, and that covers everybody, progressive and not-so-progressive alike. When those not-so-progressive subscribers (who are often new to reenacting and need to be nurtured) get these nifty little how-to articles, it helps them to progress, which is what is desirable, no? By eliminating them, I think it would be a disservice to progressive reenacting.

[K Bartsch]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Folks,
Okay, I admit I am a bit slow on the uptake. But here's the deal as I see it. CCG's target demographic is the mainstream. Perhaps our expectations are too high. Me? Not renewing.
Cordially,

[CJDaley]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Folks,
Okay, I admit I am a bit slow on the uptake. But here's the deal as I see it. CCG's target demographic is the mainstream. Perhaps our expectations are too high. Me? Not renewing.
Cordially,

100% correct Keith! That is their target and that's who they need to please before us. CCG (as in every for profit publication) is in the business of selling ad space. They are not in the business of pleasing every reader, or in the business of changing the world, they are trying to sell ad space and the best way to do that is to cater to the largest portion of our hobby. It's what 95% of the Civil War vendors do and it's what all the major publications do. Our hobby is no different than the rest of the world. Money talks fellas!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Hallo Kameraden!

I fully agree with Herr Keith and Herr Chris here (as I shared on Herr Matt's thread about a "new magazine.")

For me personally, the "problem" is not with CGC, and have been an on-and-off reader and subscriber since the Way Back Daze when they were mimeographed.
The "problem" lies with me.
I have come into "The Hobby," learned, grew, and evolved over the years beyond, further, and farther than the readership and marketing base of CGC- the F/M/C Community.

I cannot remake CGC in my own image, and the numbers of people "more like me," and vendors who support my interests and needs, are too few to physically support a "CGC" abandoning their F/M/C subscription and advertising base or catering to a small percentage of "The Hobby."

I had renewed my subscription after years of thumbing through the "contents" and tossing the magazine on a pile on the book case never to reopen them- through the promise of Herr Hughes and the "Playmate of the Month" feature (although fell disappointed there was NOt one each issue, as well as questioned illustrating a Mainstream lad but realized that possibility too was a target marketing choice/decision on their part as well- and the F/M/C needed their own Playmate as well once in a while... ;-) )
And when there was not one in every issue, I let my subscription expire with little or no desire, interest, or intention of renewing. And the "Nicky Hughes Thing" nailed that coffin closed.

Again, the problem is mine, not CGC's, as I have changed and moved on, while CGC has not (and cannot).

Others' mileage may vary. And any publisher or editor is more than welcomed to prove me wrong. :-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Carolann Schmitt]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

I’ve read with interest the various threads on what’s wrong with the CCG and Mr. Caldwell’s thread on a possible new publication. One question has been in my mind throughout the discussions:

What about the Citizens’ Companion?!!!

For over ten years this “sister publication” has been providing the civilian branch of the hobby with comprehensive, well-written, well-researched articles about all facets of civilian life. This is not a publication devoted only to women’s clothing. While there have been some excellent articles on clothing for women, children and men, it has also printed extensive discussions on politics, religion, relief societies, fraternal and benevolent organizations, farming, animals, transportation, foods, items of material culture, and many other subjects too numerous to mention. All are topics any citizen – military or civilian – should and would know about life in the mid-19th century. Its event calendar is current and up-to-date, and announcements of lectures, conferences, museum exhibitions and other similar events are announced with sufficient advance notice to add it to the reader’s calendar. Any AARs (and there have been relatively few of them) have been thoughtful and unbiased commentaries on the positive and/or negative aspects of an event and how it may be improved in the future.

Throughout its existence the Citizens' Companion has been guided by the capable hands of its editor, Susan Lyons Hughes. [Mr. Hughes was a very capable editor of the CCG, perhaps partially due to the expertise he absorbed by osmosis from Mrs. Hughes?] :) Her editorial skills are excellent: errors in layout and mistakes in spelling and grammar are few and far between. And with the exception of one delay due to hardware failure, the magazine has always appeared in my mailbox within one week of its expected delivery date. More importantly, the Citizens' Companion writers are made to understand that the magazine’s readers want and expect articles that provide documented, researched information that will help them grow within the hobby. Mrs. Hughes does not (nor has she allowed her writers to) assume that inexperience automatically equates to illiteracy. You will not find articles that “talk down” to anyone, no matter what their level of interest or authenticity, in this publication. Herr Schmidt mentioned that he has grown and evolved beyond the information available in the CCG. I submit that he and others at his level of research and interest will find much to interest them in the Citizens' Companion.

This is an excellent publication that should appeal to virtually everyone in the living history community. However I suspect that the great majority of members of this forum have never even looked at a copy, let alone subscribe to it. There have been many comments and suggestions about what’s wrong with the CCG, and a much greater number of comments suggestions for a new publication. If we cannot support an existing publication of this quality, why does anyone believe there will be enough interest to support a new publication (that will never be able to please everyone and their special interests)? I welcome any new quality publications that will contribute to our body of knowledge. At the same time, I challenge the readers and members of this forum to pick up a copy of the Citizens' Companion and discover a great source you may have overlooked.

In the interest of full disclosure, I’m proud to state that I have been a Contributing Editor to the Citizen’s Companion since its inception. The Citizen’s Companion is also a supporting sponsor of the Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference. Please don’t hold that against the magazine or its editor. :)

[ElizabethClark]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Carolann has an excellent point--those who are a bit tired of CCG really should try a subscription to The Citizen's Companion... and should also consider researching and submitting non-military things to that editor.

You may well find it fills the void, and helps round out the impression... and with more men undertaking non-military roles on occasion, that's not a bad idea. You may know which depot jacket to wear for a specific military setting, but do you know how the rail system works? How you make a living? What your wife does all day?

[hutchpat]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Gentlemen (and ladies):

While I agree with these comments on the "passing" of the relevancy of the CCG, my nostalgia for its heyday is tempered by certain considerations. Someone remarked above that advertising drives publications. I've been involved in editing for years, and I can attest to the truth of that--the rule of thumb is to "see how many ads you can get, then fill up the remaining space with copy." The audience for CCG is mainstream, because it's a larger audience with a larger number of potential (or actual) advertisers willing to pay for space in the publication--which in turn allows the publication to remain in business.

The progressive/authentic "wing" of reenacting is much smaller by comparison, so the "reading public" for a journal aimed at this group is limited (though we can always hope it will continue to grow). In addition, another difference is that a great many of the merchants who cater to the authentic-minded living historian are on the Authentic Campaigner vendor list--and many of them are even regular contributors to this forum. The need for them to pay for advertising to "hook" the intended or likely purchasers of their wares is diminished.

Though we all have a special place in our hearts and minds for the 19th century (obviously, or we wouldn't be on this forum), we live in the early years of the 21st. Technological developments have ushered in a new age of communication. This website allows for nearly instantaneous publication of event information, research, dialog, and even posting of images. No conventional printed magazine could equal--or even come close to--this. Face it, and revel in it: this website is the publication of and for the authentic Civil War-era living historian.

[hutchpat]

Re: New CCG Editor

The Camp Chase Gazette will be moving it's deadline to the l0th of the month for editorial content and photography so we can get into production sooner and compensate for any last-minute changes that might have to be made on an issue.

This is from the letter that Kevin O'Beirne received. Just on a more prosaic level, can anyone else see the simple mistake in this material that makes me fear that the new editor's shaky grammatical skills may spill over into equally shaky content of the magazine? Of course, we all make mistakes from time to time, but I think I would have proofread that material a little better before sending it out to (presumably) dozens of current and former contributors.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

The latest issue of the CCG was in my trash can within 2 days of arriving. This is the first time I've found nothing of value or interest in an issue since I started my subscription. Even in the days before Nicky, there were nice tidbits... such as the reminiscences (sp?) of the Centennial events.

Under Nicky's leadership, my interest was peaked and I actually learned a thing or two!

The latest issue wreaked of "outsider". The new editor is the Jonah walking up to our collective campfire to say, "Hey, Dudes!! Whaddup!!" To add faux pas to faux pas, the issue also seemed to say, "Help us help us" (versus "Help us help you"). By this, I am referring to the article on how "we" can sneak a camera with us and snap some swell shots of a reenactment, and, "oh, by the way, here's how you can submit them to us for publication."

Sad? Yep, a little.
However, I vote for events with my feet and I vote for vendors' goods (including publishers) with my wallet. If, as Paul says, "I am paying for them to tell me something I didn't already know", well... They're not giving me any reason to pay them. So, I won't.

...and there's the rub for CCG. They are willfully dropping one portion of their market. But why?? Are they hoping to get a larger number of 'streamers to subscribe? How do they plan to do this?

I wish them luck.

[CJDaley]

Rewritten by machine and new technology

An important thing to keep in mind is the relevancy of any printed publication in the modern era of the hobby. Forums like this have made CW News and Camp Chase obsolete.

Camp Gossip used to be one of my favorite features of the magazine. A guilty pleasure I know, but I have to be honest here. It was a way for the hobby to bitch at event organizers or battalion commanders in a public forum. I was always excited to see the next month’s issue full of rebuttals or support. However, the Sinks (and more notoriously the OTB Forum) have replaced that feature and you can complain, refute, argue and praise in real time and reach a much wider audience than before. I don’t need to wait a month now and unlike a printed publication there are no limits to the amount of replies you can read and you are not subject to the editors whimsical idea of what is ‘printable’. Within reason on this forum (and without reason on other forums) we eliminated that feature of the magazine.

The calendar was another reason I used to get the magazines, but now every unit has it’s own website with a published schedule and even Camp Chase and Civil War News post schedules online so I can plan my weekends months (and sometimes years) in advance. I can also see the ‘buzz’ regarding each event and by seeing the list of movers and shakers supporting these events, decide for myself which ones are worth attending.

Advertisements are another reason I subscribed, but there are a host of reasons I never advertised. First off, I can reach the 2,696 forum members (and countless guests) with the click of a button using the Vendor Announcements forum and do so as many times a month as I wish and get prime billing for a one time annual fee to the AC Forums. However, with a printed publication for a monthly fee, I can only get percentage of one page of that publication and will have to leave it up to the editors as to where my ad will run. It could either be on page 2 or way back in the depths of the C Section depending on where they decided to place me!

The how to articles were great for all of us when we got started, but as Heinrich said, we’ve all moved past that and grown up. Now I choose to subscribe to the Military Historian and Collector Journal to get scholarly reasearch regarding 19th Century material culture. While I don’t believe the internet can solve all our research needs, it has sure made information accessable to those who can’t get to the Museum of the Confederacy or to a CW Battlefield. It’s still amazing to me when a customer in Utah or Germany e-mails me a question and within seconds I can send him a link containing a great uniform study or photos of relics. John Wedeward’s site outlining photos of his collection has inspired folks like myself to make available our own research files to reenactors and students.

The cost of the magazine was never that expensive I felt, but free is better than inexpensive and the forums are free to the hobby. I know in our unit, we have done away with a mailed newsletter and are now mailing monthly e-newsletters to our members. It’s cheaper, faster and the only draw back is you have to print it to read it on the can (sorry ladies).

I don’t want to say that the printed word is an ancient relic that we’ll soon see go the way of the Dodo bird. I personally get my news every morning from cnn.com and foxnews.com vs getting a paper delivered for a charge. So, while our own personal nestalgia for the hobby make keep us hoping that the magazine will change with the times.

Perhaps a quote from The Buggles sums it up the best when they said “Video killed the Radio Star”

[Tom Ezell]

Re: CCG Articles

FYI...Actually the CWC does have some redeeming value in that they publish articles of authentic civilian interest written by Vickie Rumble. These articles usually do not highlight reenactments, rather they cover period material culture which can be useful to any reenactor- military or civilian. If they are willing to publish civilian articles, who's to say they will not cover the authentic military side?

I was counting that... but I typically don't find three-page ramblings on, say, parakeets in 19th century culture, to be helpful for much of anything I do in the hobby.

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Let me up the ante here:

How many of you have/still put out a publication, or newsletter for your LH/Reenacting, or other Historical group? How do you PLEASE everyone?

I worked on our unit’s newsletter for about 2-1/2 years, and can look back at some of the same problems you describe about CCG.


Early on I had a big problem with several of the Unit’s members in the SCV, wanting all their Parade, Marker Dedication, Recruiting Booth at town festivals, pictures in the NL. Basically those boys wanted a SCV publication. I always announced if a member had a Dedication Ceremony for a direct ancestor that got put in.
I had put my foot down, and made it clear that we were a Living History Unit, striving to have accurate, personal impressions, not a mainstream unit.

What I ended up having was a NL that posted an events section, then if our Unit Historian could come up with a nice bit of historical info on our unit, I would post that. If I ran across an OR, or book reference, then I placed that in, also.

The rest of the NL was how to, or where to get/what to get articles. Lets say someone bought a Greg Starbuck Kepi, and sent me pictures, I posted those, with details on the fabric, construction, would have also posted his website.
I always had something in there on how to do button hole stitching, buying the correct style of British Cartridge box, compared to a “Sutler Row” one. Websites would be listed with info on Uniforms & equipage. Articles on Blankets, Canteens, book reviews…well, you get the picture. I always posted photos of what I was talking about; because 2-3 members didn’t have PC’s to look up any of the info I was posting.

The nice thing was writing an article on blankets, and finding afterwards that several (including myself) purchased new blankets from FHW, or Charley Childs, or other authentic style blankets from reputable vendors. Some boys did look into what I was talking about, and followed up. It was great to see others take a heart felt interest in upgrading their impression. That is one great satisfaction I will always have!

Now, same problems you have described came up:
No matter how good, or correct, or badly needed the info you posted, it was either not wanted, or some of the boys already knew all that info, and you couldn’t teach em anything they didn’t already know. Others would complain that there wasn’t enough history on the unit written in. I was too staunch of a “authenticity nut”, stressed too much “material culturalism”…Actually had about half the group split off to form their own mainstream “anything goes” Unit.

With the Internet, bulletin boards, unit websites… I am not sure/convinced you can come up with a published newsletter or magazine that would “be all” for everyone.
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

[ElizabethClark]

Re: IMHO: What's wrong with the CCG

Well, it's certain you can't be all things to all people--no one publication could be.

Perhaps it's "elitist" of me, but I rather feel that if a magazine offers things that focus on history, and puts them into short, eatable bits, all benefit. There's enough meat to pique the interest of a newbie or mainstreamer, and possibly help them improve.... but there's also meat for the progressive, as it's stuff that's not been covered before.

Speaking with citizens, I usually tell them to expect to spend about 2 years on "gear"--but that if they don't want their brain to melt in the meantime, pick a passion, and start reading on it whilst they sew, because "the gear" gets old, fast, and you have to have something more in your gut to chew over.

Mrs. Hughes, the editress of The Citizen's Companion, is wonderfully open to new writers, with new ideas. She doesn't hesitate to publish something slightly controversial, given that it is well-documented. The writing guidelines even request sources/biblio information, and it does get published.

The majority of readers are lazy--they will talk about what they'd like to see, but never take the time or effort to write about something they find interesting. They do want to be spoonfed the pablum, and that's not limited to the mainstream world.

I have never been a reader of CCG. No one in my house does military, and so that's kind of a moot thing, as the CCG seems primarily occupied with matters military, and only rarely touched on anything of real life. CitzCompanion, though, has been a long-time fixture, because there's MORE to the war than the military. (Treason, I know, but hey--I'm a girl. I *like* soldiers, but I be not one.)

So, basically, I have no comments on CCG... but an influx of short-ish, well-researched articles on mid-century living would surely be welcomed by Mrs. Hughes, and then the Other Publication would show as a benchmark for the editors at CCG to try and meet. CitzComp appeals to a wide range of mindsets--I first saw it in my mainstream days (oh, these many years past), and found it fascinating, and I still find it fascinating, with continued progression.

[hardeeflag]

Re: Rewritten by machine and new technology

An important thing to keep in mind is the relevancy of any printed publication in the modern era of the hobby. Forums like this have made CW News and Camp Chase obsolete. . .

The cost of the magazine was never that expensive I felt, but free is better than inexpensive and the forums are free to the hobby. I know in our unit, we have done away with a mailed newsletter and are now mailing monthly e-newsletters to our members. It’s cheaper, faster and the only draw back is you have to print it to read it on the can (sorry ladies).

I don’t want to say that the printed word is an ancient relic that we’ll soon see go the way of the Dodo bird. I personally get my news every morning from cnn.com and foxnews.com vs getting a paper delivered for a charge. So, while our own personal nestalgia for the hobby make keep us hoping that the magazine will change with the times.

“Video killed the Radio Star”

I totally agree. This forum has in all intense and puroses replaced the printed periodical for the p/c/h. Place some revolving well researched articles on this forum on a subscriber base section and this forum will fill the purpose. This forum already has the subscriber base.