Made in the USA?

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo!

For discussion...

Is it "important" that an item or gear or article of clothing be made in the USA?

On a friend's table is a Confederate Widget (let's make them trousers) purchased from Vendor Vick, a well known "authentic" maker of clothing, and priced accordingly. The trousers fit the Triad Litmus Test of period raw materials, period patterns, and period methods of construction (as set by the eye in the end result). They are great trousers in all ways.

However, still attached the waistband is a label that reads:

Vendor Vick (not really, used here for sake of discussion)
Fabric - USA Origin
Assembled - Indonesia
Hand Finishing - USA

Disclaimer: Not that the Pakistani, Chinese, or Indonesians are not capable of very fine and exacting work. Or that these trousers are not first rate. Etc., etc.

However...

1. Should we be happy that an entreprenneur has added another quality source for Widgets?

2. Should we hold it against Vendor Vick that he can expand the measily profit margin on his product line by utilizing cheaper labor in developing or foreign countries?

3. Should we feel that we assume that Vendor Vick is, himself, bloodying his fingers and working them to the bone, and straining his eyes to sew for us because he makes no mention of "Assembly - Indonesia Hand Finishing - USA" on his web site or ads?

4. Or should we feel "deceived" or "cheated" in some way?

5. Or it doesn't matter as long as the product, in this case trousers, are quality wares?

6. Or the label was just a prank put there by a friend or paranoid-schizophrenic competitor trying to sabotgage Vendor Vick's business for being in competition with his own, etc, etc.?

7. Or should be worried or suspicious the next time we visit S & G Vendor and go through the "ready made" racks of "market retail" plus 20% clothing and gear whose tags no longer carry a maker's name (because they are made in a foreign country)?

I have no dog in the fight, even if there is or were to be, one. Just curious whether a quality item is just a quality item, period...

Curt

[Fenianboy]

Re: Made in the USA?

I'm okay with enfield leathers being made in England otherwise.......!?!Bud:wink_smil

[paulcalloway]

Re: Made in the USA?

I'm not a UAW guy but I drive American-made cars, on purpose.

Whenever possible, I buy American-made and that extends to all my hobbies.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Made in the USA?

Curt,

While I love supporting American business...if I had the oppurtunity to buy an EQUAL or SUPERIOR product with a serious break in price, I would probably try it out.

The question each of us have to answer is, where do we draw the line? Our wallet? Finished good? Buttons? Fabric? Yarn? Thread? Needles? Leather?...etc?

Would we question a fine sword-belt that was made of J.E. Sedgewick English Bridle Leather simply because the leather was imported (from England) and was not domestically tanned and stuffed?

Paul

[Secesh]

Re: Made in the USA?

I am willing to purchase a Tait jacket from Ireland to keep an Irishman employed...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Made in the USA?

Hallo!

Herr Paul and Herr Paul... :-)

1. We assume when we buy, that the Widget is American made when it is not (Assembled in Indonesia, hand finished in the USA being another discussion perhaps...)

2. The price to us is the same or comparable to other vendors/makers, so there is no customer savings JUST the vendor's profit margin.

Curt
Who also wears Made in the USA WWI uniforms with an occassional Made in China

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Made in the USA?

Gents,

No one seems to object to buying RWS / Dynamit Nobel / "German" caps. Indeed they are the preferred item in many quarters. Not exactly the same scenario, but there is a known foreign quality item.

Ron Myzie

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: Made in the USA?

Well, I love the US more than any of the other 16 countries that I've visited, so call me a patriot. And having worked in the automotive field for 20 years of my life, I know that Ford uses parts made by Ford Lioho in Taiwan. Most "American" cars have foreign parts on them or have been assembled by foreigners. I also know that Toyota uses Hoosiers and Kentuckians to build their vehicles, and Nissan uses Tenneseans to build theirs. So since I own a Toyota, I may have helped put a meal on a Hoosier's table. And I own a Ford, so somebody probably got to eat Phad Tai. It's so convoluted that it's becoming increasingly difficult to associate a widget with a nationality. So while I'm still confident that the US is the best place on earth, I just don't keep up with where things are made any more. I say all of this to this point:

If a reproduction Civil War item uses correct materials, correct construction, compares favorably to an original, etc., I'm fine by whoever made it, or however many nationalities it took to get it done. I have ALOT of gear. And while I've purchased all of it through American suppliers, I don't know for certain where every item came from. I rate the authenticity of an item on it's own merits of period materials, period construction, etc. not the nationality of who made it.

What if the UPS driver that delivered it was Hungarian? What if the guy who made something was from Montana which wasn't a state during the Civil War? Does that make him a foreigner for Civil War purposes? What about a Chinese immigrant living in say, Pennsylvania, that does sewing? Kline used to use one. What about a guy making something in Brownsville, TX? Now the same guy goes one mile south across the border into Mexico where some of his family lives and he makes another item there? One item good, one item bad? I can't keep up. I'm going home to stamp blankets that I've imported from England.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Made in the USA?

Well, I love the US more than any of the other 16 countries that I've visited, so call me a patriot. And having worked in the automotive field for 20 years of my life, I know that Ford uses parts made by Ford Lioho in Taiwan. Most "American" cars have foreign parts on them or have been assembled by foreigners. I also know that Toyota uses Hoosiers and Kentuckians to build their vehicles, and Nissan uses Tenneseans to build theirs. So since I own a Toyota, I may have helped put a meal on a Hoosier's table. And I own a Ford, so somebody probably got to eat Phad Tai. It's so convoluted that it's becoming increasingly difficult to associate a widget with a nationality. So while I'm still confident that the US is the best place on earth, I just don't keep up with where things are made any more. I say all of this to this point:

If a reproduction Civil War item uses correct materials, correct construction, compares favorably to an original, etc., I'm fine by whoever made it, or however many nationalities it took to get it done. I have ALOT of gear. And while I've purchased all of it through American suppliers, I don't know for certain where every item came from. I rate the authenticity of an item on it's own merits of period materials, period construction, etc. not the nationality of who made it.

What if the UPS driver that delivered it was Hungarian? What if the guy who made something was from Montana which wasn't a state during the Civil War? Does that make him a foreigner for Civil War purposes? What about a Chinese immigrant living in say, Pennsylvania, that does sewing? Kline used to use one. What about a guy making something in Brownsville, TX? Now the same guy goes one mile south across the border into Mexico where some of his family lives and he makes another item there? One item good, one item bad? I can't keep up. I'm going home to stamp blankets that I've imported from England.

Matt,

Bully! You said this much better than me, and I couldn't agree with you more.

Paul B.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Made in the USA?

If price and quality are the same I'll likely prefer to buy from the more local source, especially if I am familiar with them, but rarely are such things truly equal.

I suppose it isn't a popular view but in all honesty, I don't much care on which side of a border an item is made anymore. It is the combination of quality, utility, and price that matters more to me. The key to keep in mind though is that low proce does not always mean a good deal, all factors must be looked at.

Yep, my tube socks maybe made in Bangladesh but at $1.99 per dozen for comfortable well made socks, neither my feet nor pocketbook really care all that much...

[dbuckley]

Re: Made in the USA?

Bully again for Matt Woodburn who said it well. But I'll still throw in my two cents.

I used to own a Ford Ranger. Built in Canada.
My ex had a Honda Civic. Built in America.
My neighbor has a Chrysler Pt Cruiser. Built in Mexico.

We can go on and on about stuff like that. You can't find a car put together with all parts from one country, no matter what. Even hand-built stuff like Ferraris.

I prefer that my money is spent to support another American whenever possible. I actually check labels now, as opposed to twenty years ago when it all came down to price, as I was poor. And theoretically a bit dumber. But since these boards cover a particular period of history that happened to be fought by many men not American born, or in many cases not even speaking the language of the land they were fighting for, I would find it very hollow to say "American or nothing."

[Richmond Depot]

Re: Made in the USA?

Hmmmmm Interesting thread. And since it is aimed at me, I think that I should reply.

Last year my wife's mother was terminally ill with Cancer. During this time, my wife made three trips to Indonesia to visit and spend time with her mother before her passing.

During her first trip over to Indonesia, she took a large quantity of work to be completed for customers. All of which were special orders for customers. When re-entering the country through Newark Airport her work was taken by Customs and sat in Customs until the mess could be figured out. Eventually, the work was returned to us. At this time the customs officials informed us that the work would need to be labelled with the pertinent information.

On her second trip over, she again took her work with her so that she could continue making clothes. Basically she put everything together and then brought it back to the US so that all that would be needed would be the hand finishing.

The third trip over was to bury her mother. Even during this emotionally trying time, she continued to work on her clothing.

So, we don't have a factory in Indonesia paying sweat shop labor to crank out piece after piece. All of our fabrics are made by Family Heirloom Weavers, Ben Tart or Mickey Black.

Were the pieces in question made in Indonesia ? Yes. But made there by my wife.

Quite frankly, when you own your own business, there is virtually no spare time. It means 18 hour a day work weeks, 7 days a week. To me this was particularly hard, watching my wife suffer with the loss of her Mother and to continue to process orders for you, her customers with no complaints. But she did it.

Is anything else made in Indonesia or will it be ? NO, not unless another tragedy should strike that warrants her return.

Questions or issues ? Give us a call.

[Micah Trent]

Re: Made in the USA?

If it is quality made and done correct, then I have no problem with where it comes from. However, I do prefer items that I buy to be made here in America. It is more then just pride behind that, it is also that we know, for the most part, where are money is going and who it is going to. We all know several people who have made our clothing and accoutrements and their work and craftsmanship speaks volumes!!!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Made in the USA?

Hallo!

Herr Scott.

No, it was not aimed at you.
Had it been, it would have been written so.

Thanks for coming forward and putting yourself in potential Harm's Way, and thanks for sharing personal and private business.

Your wife taking customer order materials abroad during such a time of stress and grief, and sewing in a time of worry and loss, is remarkably dedicated and highly praiseworthy. I would not be that strong.

I am not an enemy of your business, as I wear a number of your products, and have and will continue to take Newcomers to where they are sold for them to purchase.

I believe the discussion is still a good one, and that it does not apply to your situation or circumstances.

Curt

[dclarry]

Re: Made in the USA?

Hallo!

For discussion...

Is it "important" that an item or gear or article of clothing be made in the USA?


Curt

Well, one of the big ticket items required for reenacting is a musket. There are no American-made Civil War reproduction muskets that I know of. All current reproduction muskets come from Europe. It is has been said that the best reproduction 1861 was made by Miroku in Japan. Reenactors/shooters (including me) snatch these up whenever they come on the market. Even Colt, a real American icon, had their limited re-issue of the Colt Special musket assembled in the US from European parts.

We seem to accept foreign copies of our muskets, if they are reasonably accurate copies. We go to considerable efforts to defarb them and bring their historical accuracy up to standard, if need be, and we continue to buy foreign-made muskets even knowing they are not all that historically accurate. So, in our biggest investment, we buy imports. However, here there is no real choice.