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Danger~musket Burst!

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  • Danger~musket Burst!

    The following was pulled from the RWProgressive/RevList YahooGroup. It appears that one manufacturer of import Brown-Bess Muskets has some design faults...and a barrel burst at a recent Rev War event.

    We all must be vigilant about getting the whole story, as this poses a very real danger to the Living History/Reenactor Community!

    "Your information is not quite correct. The musket was indeed a
    relatively new India musket. According to its owner (a 30 year re-
    enactor I deem very safe!), it had only been out to five our six
    events this year. He bought it to see its reliability, and over its
    brief life he only fired about 50 rounds out of it.

    You are completely incorrect in stating that he overloaded, so please
    don't spread such rumours, as it obscures the facts.

    The musket incident occured during the Sunday morning skirmish, for
    re-enactors only. The owner fired it maybe 7 times during the
    tactical, as he was one of two British officers out on the tactical,
    and was busy commanding troops (I was the other). The incident
    occured near the end of the tactical.

    The musket blew along, what appeared to be, a weld or seam line on
    the lower side of the barrel, on the lock side. The breach plug was
    blown, but not completely out of the gun. The lock was intact. The
    stock severly splintered. The barrel split was from the vent hole to
    the first pin.

    I secured his pouch afteward and measured the amount of powder in the
    cartridges to head off accusations of overload. The cartridges had
    about 110 grains in them, so even at a double load it should have
    been safe, and he was not double loading, as I was by him for most of
    the tactical.

    The owner sustained two broken fingers, one cut above his eye, and
    another on his hand. He, and another man from his unit were taken to
    the hospital for treatment - the other man having sustained a micro-
    perf of his ear drum.

    The conclusion I have drawn is these weapons are unsafe. The
    questions I have are:

    1.) are all the "new" muskets from India or where ever, from the
    same manufacturer?

    2.) If not, are some better than others? Have any of them been
    proofed?

    Please note that in my response I changed the subject, as the fact
    this incident occured at Rock Ford Plantation is immaterial to the
    incident, and I see no good purpose in sullying their good name for
    the sake of this important discussion on these new muskets.

    In talking with some of the sutlers afterwards, one very reputable
    and long time sutler said he had heard there were problems with these
    muskets and that is why he would not sell them. Has anyone else had
    first hand experience with problems with these muskets?

    Jim McGaughey
    HM Marines
    Crown Forces Officer Commanding at Rock Ford"
    Last edited by Stonewall_Greyfox; 10-22-2007, 10:21 AM. Reason: Edit
    Paul B. Boulden Jr.


    RAH VA MIL '04
    (Loblolly Mess)
    [URL="http://23rdva.netfirms.com/welcome.htm"]23rd VA Vol. Regt.[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.virginiaregiment.org/The_Virginia_Regiment/Home.html"]Waggoner's Company of the Virginia Regiment [/URL]

    [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]Company of Military Historians[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer"]Museum of the Confederacy[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.historicsandusky.org/index.html"]Historic Sandusky [/URL]

    Inscription Capt. Archibold Willet headstone:

    "A span is all that we can boast, An inch or two of time, Man is but vanity and dust, In all his flower and prime."

  • #2
    Re: Danger~musket Burst!

    Thank God he was not injured more than that. It could have been catastrophic. One more reason to buy quality.
    Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
    Mobile, AL

    21st Alabama Infantry Reg. Co. D
    Mobile Battle Guards

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Danger~musket Burst!

      Lawrence,

      I agree BUY QUALITY!...But how are we to determine who is/is not quality, without requiring some sort of proofing for the these firearms?

      The said piece is reported to have been manufactured in India, but details have yet to be released on the vendor carrying these. As far as I know there's at least two sources for India-made firearms with several North American vendors carrying/contracting these products.

      Paul
      Paul B. Boulden Jr.


      RAH VA MIL '04
      (Loblolly Mess)
      [URL="http://23rdva.netfirms.com/welcome.htm"]23rd VA Vol. Regt.[/URL]
      [URL="http://www.virginiaregiment.org/The_Virginia_Regiment/Home.html"]Waggoner's Company of the Virginia Regiment [/URL]

      [URL="http://www.military-historians.org/"]Company of Military Historians[/URL]
      [URL="http://www.moc.org/site/PageServer"]Museum of the Confederacy[/URL]
      [URL="http://www.historicsandusky.org/index.html"]Historic Sandusky [/URL]

      Inscription Capt. Archibold Willet headstone:

      "A span is all that we can boast, An inch or two of time, Man is but vanity and dust, In all his flower and prime."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Danger~musket Burst!

        That is the question. From what I know ArmiSport fabricates and tests all their equipment in house, in Italy. I don't know about the others.
        Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
        Mobile, AL

        21st Alabama Infantry Reg. Co. D
        Mobile Battle Guards

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Danger~musket Burst!

          Hallo!

          IMHO...
          "Technically" (hate that word), the "Indian" muskets are not sold as "firearms" and are not proofed in any way. They are sold as non-functioning "decorators" like the "fire place decorators" used to be a few years back, and for the flintlocks the touch holes are not drilled out.
          It is my understanding the some vendors drill them out before sale, while some sources require that one drill out their own when received (I received two such as flintlock pistols but IMHO the quality was so low I got rid of them.)

          Having seen how Indian and Pakistani shops work, and not to get into any arguments on whether this line of 18th and 19th century lower-cost reproductions:

          1. are indeed "safe" and "safe" to shoot blank or live, or
          2. really should be sold as such or not...

          I WOULD STRONGLY encourage anyone and everyone who owns one to:

          1. Assess the potential risk factors for themselves, and
          2. Assess the potential risk factors for their comrades next to them, and
          3. Proof it themselves with a standard proof of double powder and double ball. (Tie it down to a tire or bench, and pull the trigger with a LONG cord.

          Such method gives a "relative" proof to the workmanship under INITIAL stress. However, some flaws and defects in materials and workmanship are progressive and worsen under the stress of use.
          However, up to a point, a period proof of double shot/double powder should, at least, give a starting indicator that the gun should likely be able to handle blank charge pressures.

          IMHO, this may indeed be an isolated, and non-repeating freak incident/accident. BUT,
          a larger issue lies with what I know about the Indian and Pakistani shops that make these "guns" and what responsibility, accountability, or liability we have, or might have, to ourselves and each other?

          Others' mileage may vary...

          Curt
          Curt Schmidt
          In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

          -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
          -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
          -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
          -Vastly Ignorant
          -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Danger~musket Burst!

            We had a similar occurrence at an event in Ohio a couple years ago. A guy fell in with an Enfield (don't who the maker was but apparently a non-firing replica), apparently passed inspection and took to the field. I happened to be a file closer when after about his fifth or sixth round, I heard what sounded like a mountain howitzer going off! First thought was a double-loading cowboy, but then then a yell. Ran from the other end of the line and found the barrel separated and stock damaged. Fortnately no one was heard but ears were ringing for a couple of files on either side. Follow up was that it was a non-firing replica, had been drilled out and sold by a mainstream sutler to the unweary, unknowing "victim". This in my mind is criminal. If that kind of damage could occur from just powder, imagine what might happen if one these got into the hands of someone that couldn't tell the difference and they had been live-firing!

            While many of us focus on getting the impression right, we absolutely need to ensure weapon safety out there! Make sure your people know not only how to use them but how to maintain of their weapons. What's that old corny line from Glory with Matthew Brodderic, "...teach them properly Major"...

            Normally just a reader and lurker here but couldn't help but to throw my $0.02 on this one.
            Greg Van Wey
            5th Tex. Co. A
            [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Greg Van Wey
            5th Texas Co. A
            Medich Battalion[/FONT]

            Comment

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