Looking Ahead to Improvement

[coastaltrash]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

This is what the WIG was actually formed to do....but its fun to watch new enthusiastic ideas be repeated. The thing that will always be asked of something like this is what does the overall group wish to accomplish? Often times that's what has kept a larger forming of everyone playing in the same sandbox. Some want to do fed, some want to do Johnny, some want to do ANV, some want to do AOT etc etc. Do we take Geographical considerations for those that drive? What do we (speaking in examples purely) intend to do to make sure that a portion of the group isn't pulling the entie load and that it doesn't boil down to being a group in theory and being a group entirely. What I mean by that is, the majority of the group I am a member of is spread out Geographically. To appease that, I tend to spend a lot of time on the road so said group can host events in a more geographical appealing area for the majority.

Also, who would make the choice as to who and or what organization is a "key player"

[Michael Comer]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Good questions Patrick. Perhaps the key player part is already in place with the larger progressive groups that are in existence. Smaller groups and messes can fall in under their umbrellas. The WIG is a good example of that by including many that may not be part of the key player organizations. The WIG is what made me feel at home in the progressive community. I was not part of a group - I was an individual looking for something better. So, perhaps if a coalition of key groups could be formed then some organizational steps could be taken to get things taking shape. Of course nothing will happen if there isn't some initial dialogue between groups.

[Coatsy]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

As current commander of the WIG, I can always be reached via PM here, the Facebooks, or that email thing. hcoats007 at gmail.com. I had a great conversation about a VERY cool event idea with Johnny Lloyd of the SCAR this past weekend. So, groups are still communicating.

Mind you in the beginning, the WIG was a loose group of individuals and messes that would band together to form companies. 3 to 5 give or take events. Things have changed, but we are going forward with a full plate of events going into 2017.

Now, as to the point. Can campaigners get together to form a reasonable sized larger command from a 3 to 5 company battalion? Is that what we are looking at here as well? As much as I love traveling, It is nice to look back to "Western Theater" events the starting in April of this year. Geographic restrictions do apply to a degree.

[rdykes]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

It's a nice idea but I don't think a feasible one. Too many people already won't lower themselves to carry a musket and always have to be an officer or they don't attend. Then you get into the politics that we all know can ruin events and reenacting in general. Like Landrum and Herb said then you have the traveling involved that people are already tired of from the 150ths. I think things are better the way they are. Come up with an idea and make it happen. Those that want to attend will and those that don't wont. Otherwise politics rears its ugly head and the power hungry take over.

[Palmyra Possum]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

I put threads like this in the “what would it take to get me back in the hobby” category. I haven’t attended a reenactment as a participant or spectator in over 20 years. After being obsessively devoted to the hobby for quite some time, I finally couldn't take the lack of historical accuracy any more. I and the other members of my unit would spend a lot of time and money trying to improve our impression only to go to another event full of half-steppers. Travelling back east to attend the big events taught us that the authenticity standards were no better back there; the events were just bigger. It seemed no matter where we went, it about at best 10% authentic and 90% farbs. Finally, I decided that with as much money as I was spending, I should at least enjoy it. I wasn't, so I left and didn't look back. I still enjoy the research aspects of the hobby, and I appreciate the work of guys like you who are trying to do it right, but can’t even bring myself to see a reenactment.

I stumbled onto this website a couple of years ago and for the first time in a long time I thought about getting back into the game. But when I look at the units that reenact anywhere near me, I see the same awful impressions that pushed me to choose to leave the hobby. The hardcore units I used to fall in with, or alongside of, even my old 14th, are all gone, victims of dwindling membership as more and more people also couldn’t take it anymore.

I compare the kit I had to the repro gear now available and drool. It is so easy now to have a spot on impression. However, I look at websites of units in California that I used to see at events a couple of decades ago, and they have not improved one bit despite the improvements in the repro market. They still wear the same crap uniforms topped off with the same crap accoutrements, camping in a sea of A-frames and wall tents with enough camp equipment to supply a brigade. You would think a unit that had been around about 25-30 years would have enough extra pairs of old brogans laying around that you wouldn't see soldiers in combat boots (see attached picture). And is that a Kindle the other guy is reading? Please note this is a picture from their own website, not something someone took to embarrass them! Nothing but picnics with guns! As a friend of mine (also a burned out former reenactor) is fond of saying, “You just can’t shame a farb.”

That was all a very long way of saying it would take a lot to get me back at a reenactment. Something like what you’re proposing here just might do it IF it can be done right. Here are some suggestions I would make:

1. Think Regionally as well as Nationally: For those of us on the left coast, two or three larger events a year, as proposed by Tyler, assuming they are in the major theaters, are probably two or three events I couldn't afford to attend. Perhaps another option would be to have several regional associations, similar to what SCAR does, who host their own events. From those, select one or two maximum effort events which all of the regions would support to the best of their ability. Each year, rotate which regions host the maximum effort events. Throw us a bone every now and then and have a maximum effort event west of the Rockies once in awhile. A couple hundred hardcores garrisoning Camp Reynolds in the middle of San Francisco Bay, or one of the other west coast Civil War sites, just might pull me out of retirement, or at least get me to see an event. As Mark Twain never said, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." Many a guard duty in the middle of the night on the barbette tier of Fort Point, as the wind howls through the Golden Gate, has taught me it’s true even if he didn't say it.

2. Pick Your Battles (literally): No one wants to see THE BATTLE OF GETTYSBURG with 75-100 guys on a side. Better to pick a minor skirmish than a major battle, unless you are picking one very small aspect of that battle. Personally, I’ve burned enough powder across open fields and prefer more living history focused events.

3. Stay Private: I was involved in a group that tried to focus on historical accuracy, but they made the mistake of trying to schedule events for the public. While having events designed to educate the public are great, they usually involve someone who stands to profit by a good turnout of the public. This someone is usually more concerned with THE BIG SHOW rather than historical accuracy. Time and time again this group would set up events at good sites, only to have larger, mainstream groups realize what a good site it was and negotiate with the person who wanted THE BIG SHOW to take over the event. If you want to do public events, make sure who you are dealing with is devoted to doing it right.

I’m sure I could come up with more, but I've rambled long enough. Just some food for thought.

[Scott Sheets]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

My own unit, the 36th Illinois, has experienced a resurgence in the last few seasons. We are fortunately growing in both numbers and quality over all. We have a core group that participates in C/P/H type events, but the vast majority of our unit attends mostly mainstream events. We participate in the overall command structure, but function authentically often right in the midst of the streamers. By doing this we have not only drawn members from other units that want to improve, but have also seen buy in from mainstream units as far as daily life, etc. We have been able to field very good numbers and by participating with the event we are often given great leeway in what we do outside of the battle scenario. Looking forward after Bentonville we are going to be pushing our members to attend more authentic events and keep improving. We actively avoid all politics and arguments, and try to teach our new members and most of all have fun. So far it is working for us.

The C/P/H will survive, we tend to be the most passionate group. I know most are excited to see the series of adjuncts end, and the authentic events come back, but if we want to grow we really need to try to set the example positively at the mainstream events also. There are young guys out there that want to do it right, if we don't show up, they will never know we exist.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Eric Pappe, there have been any number of events that fit all three of your categories. There has not been anything really done in the West but I can't recall anyone organizing any sort of EBUFU event out that way either. It may seem that they have been lost in the 150th stuff and all the adjunct events but even many of those adjuncts could fit into those categories. You need to keep watch here and take a leap of faith on some of these events and attend. Will you find reenacting Nirvana? No, but you'll have a pretty darn good time at a pretty good well planned authentic event.

[Palmyra Possum]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Michael,

I think you may have misunderstood the intent of my post (probably easy to do when I’m in full on rant mode). I didn't intend to imply that there were not events that met the criteria I described. There are several events I've seen promoted on this site that get my heart beating a little faster. If they didn't tend to be 2-3,000 miles away, I probably would at least go check them out to see firsthand the positive side of what the hobby can be today.

My intent was say that if there was going to be some sort of national coalition of authentic reenactors, these are the characteristics I would like to see incorporated into it, in particular the need to spread around where such a coalition holds its events. Inversely, I also recognize, as a Californian, that most, but not all, such events on a national level would and should be far away from where I live.

In the meantime, I would love a local opportunity to see some people doing it right. The nearest reenactment to me is probably the one at Moorpark, aka “The Largest Civil War Battle Reenactment West of the Mississippi!” While I have not attended, the pictures of units I've seen at the event, and the reenactors I've met that participate there, are not the sort that would entice me back into the hobby. Is there anyone on this site who could steer me in the direction of a quality group, north or south, that will be participating there that would be worth checking out? If not, next nearest areas to me would probably be Fresno/Bakersfield or San Jose.

[KPavia]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Look up THEM or the Fort Boise Garrison.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Really, really, excellent points. It is good to see this discussion about the future. It's really time to look forward. I'd like to add some acquired wisdom to the fray for your consideration.

The irony of what I'm about to say will not be lost on some here based on my earliest days on the forums. As some of you recall, I went on somewhat of a quest to create a national cooperative organization for the mainstream and the c/p/h community. It was my own head-on way to understand how things worked in the hobby back when I was younger and had... alot more energy and a lot less wisdom. From the time I joined the hobby, I saw tremendous advantages to cooperating with the mainstream on necessary levels and maintain a cooperative relationship vs. a hostile one. The reasons for this are kind of more practical and political. Adjuncts help the mainstream attract larger numbers to their events. In exchange, we get to do our own thing and and also show what we DO. Not what we say on the forums. I think this is the most effective way to get people to follow. To show them. This, in turn, helps us get recruits. Remember how we entered into Shiloh in 2012? Just because we cooperate doesn't mean that we aren't gonna bring the noise, right? ;)

So, here is my opinion about national organizations, cooperation, improvement and looking into the future:

First, our hobby is built from the mess level and up. Each mess have an individual personality, but one thing they share is independence. Some of those messes belong to larger regional groups. Each regional group recruits from their geographic area. That allows the groups to attend local events together and travel to support larger EBUFU events. In my opinion, trying to put a central body in command of this will only lead to the conflict of who is in charge. And for that matter, none of that even includes the whole blue vs. gray and numbers, etc. It's better for groups to have their own "home bases" and get together for larger efforts. Let the federal be responsible for their numbers and the Confederates for theirs. Have you heard that the First Federal Division split from the Blue-Gray Alliance? Sign of the times and a trend to watch.

The way it has worked before has been pointed out in this thread. It all depends on the events. It really does. The leadership in our hobby comes from all of the groups. Out of those groups is a subcategory I like to call the "Producers". Think of it this way, in a way, the events we do are like putting together a movie. The Producers secure the location, hire the directors (Commanders) and when everything is ready, it is shot in live action. When a group puts on an event, they get to lead it and then the next group leads at the next event and so on. Individual groups get to maintain their independence by forming companies. "The "building block" of events, right? This worked well in the past, because in large part, their were several larger groups around that basically rotated command and supported each other at events.

Now, with the often-noted attrition in the hobby, it seems to me that many of the traditional leadership structures on the c/p/h and mainstream sides have evolved. It seems to me sometimes that the "pieces are up in the air and no one knows yet where they will land". We are going through a fairly major transition, as you all well know. The new leadership will grow through successful events, because the successful ones will attract the largest following.

What kind of events? Well, here are some things I have observed over the years as a kind of market research I have conducted by talking to people. Bear in mind that local events are different, but in my opinion, on a larger scale, this is the kind of event where we are at our best:

1) Something new. Something that won't make the veterans grumble that they have been there five times, but something the fresh fish will find interesting enough to attend.

2) Something on the move. It is my opinion that the c/p/h community is at it's best when we are "on campaign". I am not saying no living histories, or ceremonies, or whatever, but "campaigning" is what differentiates us from the rest of the Civil War Hobby.

3) On actual ground. I know, I know, it is hard to get permissions depending on the city or state, but it is worth it to the people who do our events.

I think if an event has those things in it, you can keep the veterans happy and attract new people. This is my observation of our "market". Others mileage may vary.

So, using more than my full compliment of fifty words, here is my response to the original "Looking Ahead to Improvement" Question:

- Producers put on events. Because of this, The Producers lead the hobby. This allows for a natural rotation of leadership.

- Cooperation, when it comes to the schedule is essential between The different Producers. The best method for dealing with difficult questions, especially conflicts, is to pick up the phone. It is critical. E-Mail Chains get out of control and social media is certainly not the place to settle things.

- Putting one "group" in charge of the others won't work and would only make politics more difficult, not less by creating a conflict that is not currently there.

- Lastly, and most importantly, it was a mantra years ago and still should be. "It's the events Stupid". The only way to get the positive vibes going is to do it in the field. Every event success we have builds the next one. It seems that Bentonville, for now, is next opportunity to really bring our "A" game with several solid, promising events coming right behind it for this year. It seems that we can have a really good year this year. For the future, the question already is "What's next in 2016?"

[Strawfoot]

Re: Looking Ahead to Improvement

Remember how we entered into Shiloh in 2012? Just because we cooperate doesn't mean that we aren't gonna bring the noise, right? ;)

Ha ha ha was talking discreetly with Ivan Ingraham on the battle line before Saturday's Bentonville fight. Most will remember that folly as Pete Berezuk's "Prepare to Repel Boarders" affair. Anyway, Ivan was lamenting about the mainstream malfeasance occurring, and recounting the countless commands and directives from the various staff lackeys and orderlies who scurried across his path. I reminded him that at 300 rifles we were by far the largest unit on either side (which in itself was profoundly compounded by our impression) and the de facto eight hundred pound gorilla on the field. His eyes widened and he smiled at the comparison. Let's just say carpe eventum was practiced with extreme magnitude.

Someone wise in the way of our hobby, though not universally adored God bless his soul, once told me that our wing was an event driven affair. Large units are nice, and the WIG is certainly the model, but it's the events which organize us more. I find nothing to dispute that really.