Loyalist

[guad42]

Per a thread a while back. Finally got around to disassembling my 1842 from Loyalist. The underside of the barrel is clearly marked Pakistan. Not sure if that means anything to anyone, just throught I'd mention it as there has recently been some discussion on the source of some Loyalist products. There were a series of other stamps as well, not sure if these have anything to do with inspection, proofing or test fire.

I used it through another event last weekend, no problems. Though I think I may eventually phase it out for an Italian replacement.

Sam Dolan

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Loyalist

Well, they are not proof marks as the barrels are not proofed. It might be fine, or you might have one that the bolster is sitting on the barrel seam and there is no way to know. I would recommend erring on the side of "safety" and getting the Italian repro US 1842. The barrels are at least subject to Italy's proof laws and come marked as such.

[rick35ovi]

Re: Loyalist

Would it be possible to relace the barrel wth one from say, lodgewood or other sources?
just wondering.

[Fenianboy]

Re: Loyalist

Rick, I have a Whitacre barrel in a original 42 that has been problem free.They are located in Wnchester, Virginia and mave be reached at dwbarrel@yahoo.com They sell both a rifled and smoothbore 69.Bud

[rick35ovi]

Re: Loyalist

Personally i don't have a loyalist rifle but it seems it would be a cheaper alternative replacing the barrel than buying a whole new rifle. I don't know how much work it would involve but it would be interesting to know.

[mnreb]

Re: Loyalist

Hi.
I also have a loyalist. Is your a Palmetto? The one problem that you might have is that a new barrel might be bigger than the one from loyalist, causing the bands not to fit. It also might not interchange with the stock. Just food for thought.
Sincerely,
Bill Feucthenberger
1st South Carolina Volunteers (Gregg's-McGowans)

[Southern Cal]

Re: Loyalist

The proprietor at Middlesex Village can tell you what your Pakistani barrel markings mean. He sells Indian replicas and knows the products.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/

Good luck

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Loyalist

Hallo!

I do not have an Indian/Pakistani M1842 to "Compare and Contrast."

HOWEVER, as an General Caveat, IMHO, do not expect them or the Italian repro parts to "drop in" or "interchange" with original M1842 parts or also with reproduction original parts that are designed to interchange with originals.
(Plus as an aside, while the M1842 was supposed to be the first "interchangeable" musket, one does find that Springfield and Harpers Ferry made versions are not always interchangeable.)

In brief and to over-generalize, I would expect the original barrels to be thinner walled, narrower breech sectioned, and sightly different profile or taper than the repro's...

Curt

[guad42]

Re: Loyalist

Actually, I was wrong, the barrel is actually stamped India.

I did actually fire off a triple charge, some 200 grains, and experienced no problems. No on purpose of course. However, it did not blow up!

[trippcor]

Re: Loyalist

I have contacted Loyalist about this incident since I own one of their long land bess. They have assured me that this was not one of their weapons. It was from another vendor and was caused by an obstruction in the barrel. I can say I have never had any troubles with my long land bess from Loyalist nor have any of my friends that have them.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Loyalist

Even if the barrel is fine, and it may be, the Loyalist Arms 1842 is a substandard arm. A more complete review can be found in The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy. There are a variety of other issues.

Todd Watts has one of the Brown Bess repros and he has reported no problems with it. I am not convinced that the quality control measures are in place to make any kind of final analysis of the suitablity of those barrels for our purposes.The decision rests not only with the user, I would recommend asking your comrades in arms if they are comfortable with your decision to use one of these as they will be getting hit with some of the debris that explodes out with the barrel, should that occur.

[trippcor]

Re: Loyalist

While I can not speak for Loyalist's Model 42, I can say their Long Land Bess is used by many in the Rev War and French Indian War communities with great success. There has been no reports of failures, need to reharden frizzens, or anything else. I know several folks that fire these live with out any issue. While they do have some issues with authenticity, I have never had any concerns over their safety.

[benjaminmcgee]

Re: Loyalist

Hello,

Aside from one documented barrel failure which may or may not have been caused by user error(barrel obstruction, smokless powder,etc) what other documented cases have been reported? I just cant see a blank charge generating enough pressure to burst a barrel in such a way(the documented brown bess failure)

Benjamin McGee

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Loyalist

Hallo!

"I just cant see a blank charge generating enough pressure to burst a barrel in such a way(the documented brown bess failure)"

IMHO, and personal choice only, I do not use Indian or Pakistani "non guns" even to shoot blanks.
Regarding the Italian "proofing" Houses (or European) and government regulation, IMHO, and personal choice only, I have enough "buyer confidence" in the system that the minimum level of materials, workmanship, and my actual usage are such that what I do is below catastrophic failure levels.
I do not have that confidence, real or imagined though it might be, in the Indian and Pakistani "non-guns" or "decorators."
Or that seamless tubing or conduit visually passing as a "gun barrel" should not be given a "historical" type proofing that it will "hold" at least the first charge (let alone the 2nd, 10th, 100th, or 1000th)- before putting it next to my face and the bodies of my comrades in line.
So I do not use them.

IMHO, we struggle here on several counts and points. We have an "incident" or "occurence" in a vacuum of silence and lack of information beginning with the true nature of these so-called "guns," proceeding with a lack of information concerning what was going on when the "barrel" burst, and not ending with any kind of detailed analysis or testing of the product or practice that led to the failure.

IMHO, and for me personally, I am not sure would should even be trying to discuss this in a vacuum other than a Red Flag should have gone up and has not.

Meaning, while it may be entirely my personal choice to use or not use these products, what does that mean to the lads next me- IF we are possibly pressure-loading what is tubing or conduit manufactured to give the appearance of a gun barrel when in fact (and we do not really know) it is just a decorative fixture?
IMHO, right now, and likely to remain unchanged- this is a brief flash, if not a minor and temporary Tempest in a Teacup.

But that is just my personal choice, and, of course...

Others' mileage will vary.

Curt

[tiger_rifles]

Re: Loyalist

Not sure about the Loyalist Arms 42, but I do know that the Italian barrel will not replace an original barrel. Italian barrel is too big around and the bolster is too wide, just for starters. Also finding a repro barrel can be like pulling hen's teeth sometimes! A gunsmith that works with muskets should be able test and proof that barrel.
Paul Bennett