Musket

[guad42]

Now that I am afraid of my India made '42, I am in the market for a new (and Italian) 1842 Smoothbore. Does anyone know the origin of the Dixie Gunworks '42, or is there a suggestion for a source of Italian Made 1842s (or other pre-war smoothbores) for the price Dixie offers?

Any and all suggestions welcome and appreciated.

Regards,

Sam Dolan

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Musket

Hallo!

The "Dixie" M1842 is made by Armi-Sport. Importers such as Dixie, Navy Arms, Cabelas, are importers not makers, they contract with the Italian firms for products at a level of fit, finish, workmanship, and quality control that fits their selling price requirements. The guns are then typically surcharged with the importers' names.

I believe the Dixie/Armi Sport M1842 regularly sells for $565, is on sale now for $525.

Regarding the prices, that is, IMHO, a longer discussion.
Meaning it depends upon the desired end of to what degree or none of so-called "de-farbing" one has a need/want for- and whether one can do the work or must pay a service to have it done.
For a so-called "de-farbed" gun, IMHO, it is better to shop the "'wanted to sell" folders of the CW boards and fora looking for "previously owned" or "gently used" guns that lads are getting rid off- and having taken the "hit" on the initial cost and the cost of so-called "de-farb" work, often/usually offer them for sale at the same or even less than the price of the NIB (New In the Box) ones.
And that is also true if one buys NIB and then goes about adding so-called "de-farbing" services.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[guad42]

Re: Musket

Curt,

As always, your guidance and information is greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Sam Dolan

[Todd Watts]

Re: Musket

There was a run of "Dixie" muskets made in Japan. I have seen several and the wood to metal fit was/is pretty bad compared to the Italian guns. I don't know what steel the Japanese guns use, but as far as mechanically-speaking, they seem at least fair.

[trippcor]

Re: Musket

I agree with Curt. Your best bet is to keep your eyes open for a good deal on the Buy/Sell forum. You stand a good chance of finding a reliable de-farbed repop at a reasonable price there. As to your India made 42, you could take it to a gun smith and have it proofed under safe conditions. It is possible it has no problems. I know several folks that live fire some of those with out issue. I do encourage you to have it tested though. I know I plan to do it with my Long Land Bess just to be on the safe side.

[HighPrvt]

Re: Musket

Go to Wallmart, and get a cheap sighting vise. Double load it, or better, and ram a good bit of paper down the barrel. Tie a few feet of string to the trigger, take cover, and pull. Do this several times, or if you can do it safely load a ball, and live fire it.
If it don't blow, your good to go!!!

[Rev]

Re: Musket

If you are going to proof the barrel yourself as described above make sure you are behind cover. Serious cover. Also make sure that nothing that can't be damaged is anywhere within 25 feet or so of the weapon. I know this sounds redundant. But, I've seen some smart folks do some stupid things when proofing barrels.

[VMI Confederate 07]

Re: Musket

Good afternoon friends,

That last idea sounds like alot of fun, but not a very safe one. I think it is certainly worth paying the price to have a weapon proofed rather than attempting to either proof it or blow it up yourself. If in the process you happen to have a round cook off as its going down the barrel, and it isn't proofed...well, you could end up in a world of hurt (litterally).

Personally, I am the owner of two fine reproduction Armi-Sport weapons. Both fire without any major incident both with live rounds and blanks. Both have also been de-farbed as an afterthought. Both also have several years of wear on them as well. IMHO, stick to the Italian stuff or something from The Rifle Shoppe.

Respectfully,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Musket

Hallo!

Just an aside...
Traditional proofs such as proofing with higher charges, or double loads of powder and ball give an indication that the barrel will stand the proof so that the lesser pressures of a standard service load would be okay.

And this is good.

However, it is not a "perfect" test in that:

1. At this moment of time and lack of information, we are not sure that the tubes on the Indian made "guns" are actually really "barrels" as we would define the term, and

2. A load proof is a instantaneous test or "test of the moment." Meaning, if a barel is flawed in some way that the proof charge or charges does not reveal it/them, (or destroy the barrel) it may have "put in motion" defects that cumulatively lead to "catastrophic barrel failure" some time in the future whether the 2nd, 20th, 2,000 shot late. (These "metalurgical" issues are addressed by sophisticated testing such as x-ray , ultra-sound, and magnafluxing that are beyond even what Proof Houses normally do in the course of production proofing...)

Again, this is just "an aside" and I am NOT pooh-poohing lads' desire to "proof" their Indians "guns'" "barrels," in fact, I applaud it.

And relating to the burst barrel being discussed here and elsewhere, it is very VERY hard to "blow up" a properly made, and of proper material, "barrel" SHORT of obstructing the bore.

Curt

[HighPrvt]

Re: Musket

Proofing it yourself is perfectly safe, I've done it with dozens of surplus firearms with a lot more power than a '42 Springfield. Common sense, and situational awareness is all that are needed.
If one doesn't feel comfortable doing it yourself, or doesn't have an area to do it, than by all means take it to a smith, who will charge you to do the same thing.


Curt, While I agree with what you say, I don't think many would be willing to spend the money. After all these guns were purchased to save $$ in the first place. If the rifle will stand a double, or triple load with a bit of resistance, or live round than it's doubtful that it will fail from shotting blanks with just a little paper down the barrel.

[Kace]

Re: Musket

My 2 cents worth is if you are not going to do the defarb yourself is to wait a little longer and save up your money and buy a defarb from James River. Their defarb is every bit worth the extra money.

Kace

[Gary of CA]

Re: Musket

What HighPvt says. Proof it yourself. The Dixie Gun Catalog describes it. Basically, you measure the barrel (mark the points) and after strapping it down so it won't jump, double the powder charge. Get behind shelter and pull the string attached to the trigger. Measure the barrel and see if there's any change. If it hasn't changed, you're good to go.

[guad42]

Re: Musket

All suggestions much appreciated. I did carefully fire off a triple charge and had no problems. I have fired other Loyalist 42's live and again had no problems. The real problem is this. Many folks are plain scared of the India/Japan/Paki guns and I have had fellows tell me that they feel a lot safer in the ranks beside Italian muskets.

-Sam Dolan

[Gary of CA]

Re: Musket

Triple charged? Heck, if there's no dimensional changes, your gun is super safe. It's better than the pre-Napoleonic Brown Bess. Some shady barrel makers hammered down the bulges, soldered the cracks or did other measures to hide the flaws. When the British (under Congreave) improved their powder, they reproofed their guns and found a lot of once latent flaws that were hidden.

[JimKindred]

Re: Musket

One piece of this proofing puzzle has not been addressed, when the barrel turns loose into several pieces are you out a musket or will the importer who suggested you proof it replace the musket? Good question you need to ask before strapping that musket to a log and touching it off. I prefer my firearms come proofed from the factory.