Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

[jake.koch]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Has anyone noticed that in North and South the photos they have of each other, such as the one Patrick Swayze's mom has of him on her dresser, are all modern black and white sepia photos. I think they were all head and shoulder shots, nothing like the original photos.

I think my favorites are the new Occurence at Owl Creek, and Ride with the Devil. The most enjoyful unauthentic movie has Ronald Reagan. I think it might be called either The Last Outpost, or Cavalry Charge. It has Rebs and Feds fighting Apaches together with the Authenticity you would expect from 1952, but still a fun movie.


Jake

[Barry Jurek]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

I enjoyed Glory. Probably because I knew someone who was an extra in the film, and it came out around the time I first got into reenacting.

I like parts of Gettysburg; mostly the Buford stuff and Little Round top. Interestingly enough my wife (who knows next to nothing about the Civil War) pointed out the Confederate drummer boys playing drums with Remo drumheads.

"The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" was good just for pure novelty value.:D

[1stMaine]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Fellers,

For anyone who subscribes to NETFLIX, there are several excellent early films based upon the Civil War, which often used veterans as "advisors". There is one very pognant one, the name of which at the moment escapes me, about an aging veteran and his grand-daughter. It is quite well shot, and the story rings very true, even today. In fact, it could be redone with the same storyline in about any era and still work very well.

Also available are newsreels featuring GAR and UCV veterans in parades, at ceremonies, and a few ransom shots. One excellent clip which also plays at the Museum in Harrisburg, shows someone handing a mucket to an old federal soldier. That old guy rips into the manual of arms and doesn't miss a beat, even after all those years!

If you have a NETFLIX subscription, and a little time, it's worth it to locate and watch these films.

[PvtHull48thovi]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Wicked Spring is a great fil showing the comradery that men can form in a few short hours, no matter what the color of their uniform. I personally think that it hits home more than some of the other Civil War films. It doesnt just tell the story of some big battle or a unit, but instead tell the stories of the men who were in those battles.

Platoon is indeed the best for Veitnam and Apocolypse Now is a very close second.

For WW2 I have to say that Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, Battle Ground and The Thin Red Line are by far the best.

[Southernlady1862]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

If you have Gettysburg on DVD go to the special features and watch "the making of Gettysburg" . It delves deeper into the History, interviews many re-enactors (yeah, they're farbs, but wasn't that even more common in the 90's? ) and is much more interesting than the movie.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Speaking of "Civil War Films":

"Gangs of New York" is pretty entertaining, I feel. It is about a very overlooked time/place in American history-New York during the Irish Draft Riots of 1863. No way near historically accurate, though... "sorta accurate" don't cut it.

About the movie I don't readily understand:

1)Why the Federal Navy would bombard New York during the Irish Draft Riots of Summer 1863? Not in anything have I
read did this happen during the riots. Seems like a fire in New York would make things way worse, not better.

2)How accurate the soundtrack to the movie is... "Durgun Chugaa" is from a nomadic people of Central Asia- how'd it get
to New York City 1863? Heck of a land/boat ride if it did. People from Coastal China, I can understand... but
thousands of miles inland?

3) The bar Bill/Amsterdam hang-out in has what looks to be a tree's roots growing in it. Huh?!? That threw me way off...

4) What's up with that girl that has claws, anyway? ("Huh?!?" part two)

I liked about the movie:

1) Seeing the two historical characters: William "Boss" Tweed and Horace Greeley. "Bill the Butcher" was LOOSELY based
on a real, historical character.

2) The Abolitionist play where the actor playing Abraham Lincoln was left suspended above the stage, all the while a fight broke out among the audience shouting- "Down with the Union!" Too funny, but New York was heavily Democratic during the 1860s (and still is really) and was mostly opposed to Abraham Lincoln because he was a National Republican. I'd look upon this scene as being quite realistic for the period.

3) Seeing the Irish immigrants on the dock in New York signing their citizenship papers ALONG WITH their draft papers into the Union Army. Wow... helluva life to escape starvation in Ireland, come to America to start over if you survived combat. Well, I think that was quite realistic also. Coffins were being unloaded while the ships were being loaded with fresh recruits.

"We're going to Tennessee."
"Where is that?"
"Don't know..."

Truly sad Americans would, and did, actually do that kind-of-thing to one-another...

4) Seeing a well-to-do 1863-era Fifth Avenue/omnibus/rich man's house... Good concept of what material culture might have looked like back then.

5) Tweed's privately-owned "Americus Fire Brigade" rob a man's house while it was on fire... I have read that this actually happened- along with intentional arson scams so that the victim would have to pay the fee to save his house. Crazy.

6) I liked seeing a realistic portrayal of the Five Points ghetto in the 1860s... dirt roads, filth everywhere, homeless/drifters, and water carts watering down the dirt roads to keep the dust down. Neat... the "good ol' days" were sometimes not so good.

Good movie, even if it is a little too Hollyweird-ish... Johnny Lloyd

[LWhite64]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

"4) What's up with that girl that has claws, anyway? ("Huh?!?" part two)"

Dont know about the claws, but dont rule out some crazy stuff in the inner cities of that time, in New Orleans there was an infamous prostitute by the name of "Bricktop" Jackson, she had red hair by the way, who was married for a time to a fellow who had his lower right arm amputated and then had it capped with a metal plate to which a length of chain and a ball was added. Sounds like something from a Marvel comic...ironically Bricktop murdered him.

Lee

[vamick]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

heres a National Geo article on 'Gangs of New York" that down plays some of the movie violence...maybe a lil too much! truth is often found 'between positions'

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0320_030320_oscars_gangs.html

I did read somewhere that 'Hell Cat Mary' was a real woman who did use gloves with metal claws, but I havent found the 'scholarly work' on that yet
wether the folks living in 'The Points' were as demented as the movie, or a bit calmer as in the article, I sure wouldnt have wanted to live there!

[BishopLynch]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Can we close this thread already? If the site is limited on space, this sure is a waste of it.

[WoodenNutmeg]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Can we close this thread already? If the site is limited on space, this sure is a waste of it.

Well, I wouldn't say it's a waste, but it certainly has been played out.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

Well, I wouldn't say it's a waste, but it certainly has been played out.

Aw, guys... that's why this is "The Sinks"... every subject gets played out here eventually anyway... somtimes sooner than later.

Couldn't resist... LOL :D

-Johnny Lloyd

[BillO'Dea]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

I'd recommend picking up the book The Gangs Of New York An Informal History of the Underworld by Herbert Asbury, written in 1928 it was re-issued when the movie came out. Much of what the movie is based on comes from it. Although the time frame of actual people and events are condensed, Hell Cat Maggie included,
"The Dead Rabbits, during the early forties, commanded the allegiance of the most noted of the female battlers, an angular vixen known as Hell Cat Maggie, who fought along side the gang chieftains in many of the great battles with the Bowery gangs, She is said to have filed her front teeth to points, while on her fingers she wore long artificial nails, constructed of brass. When Hell Cat Maggie screeched her battle cry and rushed biting and clawing into the midst of a mass of opposing gangsters, even the most stout hearted blanched and fled."
And no during the Draft riots of 63 the Navy did not fire on NY city
for a good read about that see The New York Draft Riots Their Significance for American Society and Politics in the Age of the Civil War by Iver Bernstien 1990
Bill O'Dea
Salt-Boilers mess
122nd NY

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

I should've just put a page on the Daybreaks site about the film...sometimes, I don't know where to begin to address it.

SO much stuff is skewed, compressed, and taken out of chronology and geography in that movie.

Remember Scorsese's own comment on the film: "it's an opera." Think of it as that, and you'll be fine. It is not a documentary, and treads dangerously at the level of "historical fiction."

From the standpoint of material culture as far as militaria is concerned, it doesn't belong on this board. For the civilian end of things, it's barely better. For the amount of research they did, they misinterpreted a lot. The fire scene utilizes items based on the NYC Fire Museum collection during the time when I volunteered there, but they're either from the wrong era or utilized improperly.

"Opera," though, "opera!"

Asbury's book is frustratingly devoid of good citations, and is full of holes. Tyler Anbinder's recent work on the Five Points is an overwhelmingly better (that is to say, better documented) scholarly work.

Bombardment didn't happen. The "Ironclad Passaic," which is mentioned by name but not shown, was being overhauled at the time. The "Gunboat Liberty?" Far as I can find, no such vessel existed.

The Chinese influence on New York City was nowhere near as pronounced during the Civil War, this again being one of the aspects of the neighborhood they pulled from a different (later) decade.

The "caves of Vicksburg" aspect to this movie puzzles me, too. No explanation.

The assembly line recruitment at the docks? So much for all those mustering-in camps on Staten Island.

Tweed was long-gone from the Foreman slot at Big Six by the time of the Civil War...and the company was not located in Five Points; several other companies were on the "first-due card," as it were. "Black Joke" Engine 33 is even less plausible, as they were located way the heck uptown. The barrel-over-the-hydrant trick, however, is totally documented and a good touch.

[Gary of CA]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

I enjoyed Wicked Springs and thought the weapons and clothing were more plausible than the story line which was good until near the end when they started pointed their guns at each other.

BTW, until a few years ago, everything I knew about gunsmithing, personal hygiene, dinner manners, gunfighting, religion, interrogation techniques and the Civil War came from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[BillO'Dea]

Re: Best Civil War films (or rather, the lack thereof)...

If i had checked out the National Geographic link first I might not of posted as it sites Asbury's book, Still I enjoyed reading Gangs even if some of his facts are questionable and perhaps repeating urban myths of the time. I had read it awhile back and had egarly antipated Scorsese's take on it, and had been facinated with the whole Draft riot story. But as much as i enjoyed Daniel Day Lewis as Butcher Bill it was a disappointment over all. But still every once in a while I watch it again, as it is a fun movie.
LOL... if i had looked over my book self more closely I might of mentioned Anbinder's Five Points too.
I also owe some of my interest in this period of the Apples history to Marc's The Daybreak B'hoys site.
One of the better times I had was last March 17 when we took a guided tour of what used to be the Fve Points just before marching in the St Pat's parade

Being a history film buff I don't feel this thread is waste by the way. There's a neat book called The Reel Civil War: Mythmaking in American Film by Bruce Chadwick that's worth checking out
Bill O'Dea
Salt Boilers mess
122nd NY